Hello Everyone!

I was hoping for some help! I've done alot of reading, and research on Creek boats. I've come down to two boats, the Deisel 75 and the Dagger Nomad 8.5. I'm looking for some opinions on these boats!!

About me: I'm originally from the Ottawa Valley School of paddling, and have done a little Creek boating in Quebec (not very successful). And now I'm in Calgary Alberta, looking at getting into Creeking and developing my skills there! I'm confortable in Class III and mild Class IV water. I'm 5'8" and around 205 lbs.

Thanks for any info, and hope to see everyone out on the water soon!

Cheers

Andrew

I still creeked with my old boats (preception pirroutte and my response) though I am seeling them as we speak.
So do not know much about the new creek boats.
But drop by the boys at undercurrents in Calgary
( www.undercurrentsonline.com )
They are really helpfull and you might get to demo a few boats.

My opinion: from what I have read is to go with the Diesel. It loofs like it will still play on some features very well when you come accross them.

The diesel isn't really a creeker for a variety of reasons. Main reason: no peeked deck to help shed water and resurface. Also, low volume in the stern leads to backenders while punching holes. If your looking for a river runner/ creeker the Dagger mamba series is a much better option. If your looking for a full on creeker, I would recomend the fluid solo. I don't know if there are dealers near you, but it is probaly the best creeker on the market. The Liquidlogic Jefe is another excellent option. i know you have a liquiid logic dealer in Calgary, cause I've been to it!! Im from saskatchewan.b

There you have it.

Thanks I will look more for my own knowledge.

Still like my old boats.

Nothing runs big water like the old response.

Thanks for the insight into the Diesel. I do not know about andrew but I will be digging furhter.

just demo alot of creekboats

if you looking for a die hard creeker, go with the CFS dagger (older model but still unbeatable)..

the next option is a nomad dagger or a ll hoss...

you can obviously go creeking with any boat you like even a playboat will do but this wont be safe and fun..

the diesel...i think is rather a dagger gt or mamba or similar...a very good boat with creeking features but more an allrounder...

so depends what you are looking for...if it is diehard creeking/waterfalls/lowvolume go for the cfs, if it is bigger volume but still very steep go for the nomad or ll hoss..once you get below the big drops, go for the diesel or similar..

as mentioned, the diesel is a very good boat..but not a diehard creeker...

the dagger cfs is an awsome creekboat try it out

Thanks for your opionions!

I think I'm too big for the CFS? I was looking at the Deisel only because the transition from my Dagger Jucie to a Deisel would be less drastic! However I beleive you are all right in that once running drops It pays to have something that resufaces in a controled and reliable fashion! Again Thanks! If anyone else wants to express their opinion, I will keep reading!

Hope everyone is Enjoying their Winter, and wishing for a good spring!

Andrew

how long is the diesel

the nomad is the newer better version of the CFS, the CFS is about the worst boat for holes, they are like a cork and wont come out... for steep continous creeking go the nomad, but for flatter rivers get a diesel

The Desiel is 8 Feet even, and the Nomad is 8 Feet 5 inches.

Dagger CFS is a good boat although they are often refferd to as hole bait i would say try try try but the perception java is great and is cheap like the CFS £499.

so the cfs gets caught in like every hole there is on the river

I suppose so yes i have only paddled one on the flat but i have heard often that they are quite slow.

Since your near the rockies the creekin should be pretty steep. Try a fluid solo. That boat comes in a large size. The Java is too small. The solo is everything I liked in the Java but magnafied.

I've heard that the CFS is Hole Bait as well! Is the same true with the Nomad 8.5 or does the extra length give it more speed to clear those lovely play spots!

Any other thoughts? And thanks to those who contributed!!

Cheers

Andrew

I am only 115lbs but I liked the Jefe. I tried it in a class IV run. I thought it had excellent speed and was very manouverable. The nomad and CFS would likely be good boats for you because the creeks around you are pretty steep. The holes they are talking about are more likely big high volume river holes. Try the Jefe because it is good on high and low volume rivers/creeks. That is probaly the nicest on the market at this point. Very versitile.

I've bought a Liquid Logic Huck last year and was really happy with it. Especially have a look at the foot brace, some new models move so much you could slide your foot under them in a big impact!!! The Huck is solid and simple.

If you want to run creeks them get an out and out creekboat it makes it much more fun.

Neil

www.swiftwaterrescue.at

If your are getting a creekboat go for Bliss-Stick Mistic it's looks awesome
experiencebliss-stick.blogspot.com/2006/...tures-of-mistic.html

Has anyone seen the design to the new Wavesport creeker. It is suppost to be released in Aug. I'm curious about what it's volume and length will be?

Cheers

Andrew

It is gonna be in multiple sizes. I think 2. I haven't seen it yet but I heard it is gonna be for steep stuff. They originally were just gonna improve the Diesel for creeking, but it sucked so they trashed that plan and are building a whole new one. probaly won't be ready by Aug judging by the lack of hype, but, I honestly have no idea. I haven't seen one yet, which is suprising because i usually see a lot of the protos since there are so many WS guys in my area. I saw the newest project 62 proto yesterday. It was pretty fat.

It is pretty awsome living in the DC area. Waiting in line with people like Luke Hopkins and Mike Mathwin. Luke was helping me to get bigger loops yesterday!!

get a pure creeker. ie. something without sharp edges in the hull
sharp edges that can hang up on rocks when you are doing the shallow stuff and end up sideways.
sharp edges that are useless in shallow rivers
sharp edges that are only there because it's what people are used to in their playboats so why not just slap them onto the creek boat for a "familiar" feel and who cares if it's really not a good idea?

If you want to do, deep water, higher volume, class IV, then those two boats are fine. They are perfect for racing in class IV, and perfect for people who are getting back into paddling after 10 years and don't want a "show-off" pure play boat. They just want a sensible craft for class III and IV.

But, if you genuinely want to creek, in every creek way imagineable, then I'd suggest any of teh following......

Mafia
Salto
Magnum
Jefe
Mafia
round edges
creek specific

get the idea?

or the h3 / burn a much better design for steep stuff compaired to the diesel and more than enough for most grade 4/5 paddlers. If you like your drops big n deep and or just very steep technical raids then maybe a Jefe or M3 give them a try very nice boats both in their own right!

But the M3 has got sharp edges on it same as the H3! Good in big volume but not a great design on rocks. Also the ratchets for the backband on the M3 mean that you can't get your leg out of the keyhole cockpit in a pin unless you have real skinny legs. The liquid logic ones are recessed so they are out of the way. Much better design in my opinion.

Neil

www.swiftwaterrescue.at

I have a Jefe and I can tell you that I am very happy with it.

Looking for a real creeker? avoid a diesel and mamba. Ive paddled both on class 4+ and I dont want a creeker that I can squirt so easily. Since your a newbie and not going to be bombing any 5+ soon and might be swimming Id avoid the death trap thigh braces of drago rossi kayak (mafia) but you probably dont need a full on creeker yet. Love my Jefe, but if youre running big water you may find it doesnt punch the biggest holes too well, its really a [u:9352555b87]steep[/u:9352555b87] creeker.

How do people rate the perception java? i hear it's a good boat, but percetion have a bad rep for some of their other boats, has anyone paddled one?

SCUD, Mistic, Huka..... Bliss-Stick

I have paddled several different creekers and I feel the Nomad 8.5 is the best. I'm 6'2" and 210lbs and I know what that crushing impact feels like If you are boofing vertical drops of 10 foot or more. A boat with more of a displacement hull really eases the impact on your spine, like the Nomad. A boat with a planning hull, when boofed, can really hurt your back. this is much less of an issue with my lighter paddling buddies because less weight equalls less energy on impact. Alot of them paddle planning hull creekers and have no problems. The Nomad is fast, Boofs incredibly well and the fat stern ejects you from holes. It is longer at 8'5" than alot of creekers these days so is best turned with a bow draw or duffek, but it doesnt stern ender or back loop you in the nasty stuff, and it says on line. Try before you buy, good luck.

i heard plenty of remarks that the cfs does get stucked in 'every hole there is on the river'

i personally have sent the cfs from super small volume to (what some consider) big volume...

there is, as with any other bigger volume boat, the issue of surgin up to the surface in bigger holes and a slight difficulty to get out of it...this is not a cfs phenomena but an issue regarding all big volume boats...

obviously best is to boof over the pour overs and into safety, which the cfs does very well...my personal opinion is, that the cfs is still one of the best steep creekers out there even after getting aged....that there are many better down river boats (which is not the field for the cfs is clear) and dagger does offer the gmx (which is in the diesel, h3 range of boats)...

the nomad is a perfect mix of inbetween all of this and offers a perfect boofing, fall dropping and big volume performance but on the thight stuff it's length can be a little bit of a draw back...thus i prefer the cfs on this kind of stuff...

regarding other creekers, i had the chance to paddle some of them and/or saw them in action on steep creeks...

there are/seem to be good ways with the liquid logic range which some of them unfortunately (to my point) start to get too flat to help you go down the bigger drops/falls...the impact can be quite hard and the not so soft edge on the stern near the cockpit can be an issue when you get forced back on the hull by a stronger impact...this seems to be an issue with many creekers out there...

the other point i think is, that the short but decently sharp chines on the cfs/nomad gives you a strong turn with forgiving round hulls in the front and rear end....some of the other boats intend to have longer chines and thus make the turning a little bit harder but might help to stay you on line (the nomad again is a great link in between)...

looking at wavesports range i think there could be a problem with a strong resurfacing character because of the strong rocker...this is great on boofs and down river but might be a drawback if you land the falls incorrectly...thus thrusting you backwars, as the fast resurfacing hull will let your (or at least mine) slow body behind and thus forcing you sharply on the back deck...

the bliss stick range seems to be very promising from the look but i haven't seen/used them myuselfs...i do think that they might be very short to give you essential speed in the bigger volume and a bit too less volume for the super steep...maybe a crossbreed with the bad of both ends...

the robson charger is great boat but misses initial stability so it means getting used to it and definately needs a heavier (200+pounds) person to enjoy the ability of its super fast hull...

ther are obviously many other issues which play a role and wioth some of the new outfitting i am not the biggest of a fan, as more screws and belts also mean there's more to brake and on longer expeditions this could/will be a drawback...

as mentioned above, a creeker in moho should be down to the bone, offer a very strong hull with a safety 'frame' inside to stop the hull from collapsing, smooth peaked decks to aim resurfacing on a controlled basis and no fickle technical ratchets (even while they are great) to avoid headaches while you have to focus on the whitewater (i personally think, that most creekers in a serious environment will be used by the same person and thus fitted according to the users need/sizes)...

some small features like cross bulkheads (adjustable) out of foam which will soften the impact as well as reduce the amount of screws in the side of the hull. they will then also aid the rest flotation of the craft and will take away the some times awry bow foam in between your legs...

the hard plastic pillar as used in the dagger and pyranha boats should be a standard on all boats as a safety issue and in my point the same should be built into the rear of the boat, taken away the middle foam, build a solid "I" frame right behind the seat conected to the cocpit again and you will have something like a crash frame build in formula one cars. with lots of space offered then to fill the boat with your expedition kit. the bulkhead foam in the back on front will take over the required restflotation aid...

this also will give the hull the possibility to become fully rigid and thus will help the user to give the full muscle effort directly into hte hull without loosing it into material movements...

most of the boat manufacturers are starting to go that way and will in the near future build interiors full welded with the hull to avoid screws, weight and some unecessary flexibility between the seats and the hull...



but here we go....let's see what they come up with in the future...i still like the idea to have a boat made out of recycled plastics and i am sure there has to be a way


enjoy boating...