What does it mean when a company sells itself to another company? It means change, and change is good, so they say. I don’t know what to think of the deal where the new owner of Confluence buys Watermark. I do know that it is quite like the creation of Watermark where Perception and Dagger became one company. Well, that has just happened with all of the BIG BRANDS and big corporations. I can’t even imagine just how much pull the new company has.

Questions:

What brands will win, what will lose.

Perception whitewater was cancelled, Dagger won in Watermark.

For me the question is: Will there be a Dagger and a Wavesport in 5 years? Will R+D combine and will it be Marc Lyle or Robert Pearson, Snowy? Will marketing be Kelley Woolsey or Mike Steck? Will the factory be in Easley South Carolina or Greensboro, NC? Crazy!

Maybe, they will not do anything different… then why buy Watermark?! Things are going to change! Do you work in Easley? Do you like Greensboro? Do you live in Greensboro? Do you like Easely?

I am thinking out loud for sure and it really doesn’t matter that much to Jackson Kayak anyway… or does it? Will the new company be a super power that will be able to squeeze the little guy out? Or will they flounder under a corporate structure that stifles their ability to compete? I don’ t really know!

I worry about Marc Lyle, Robert Pearson, Kelley Woolsey, Mike Steck, Bob McDonough, Team Dagger, and Team Wavesport. There is too much duplication there not to cut one party or the other, in my opinion. But I am just guessing.

I think good things could happen from this- I just don’ know what yet!

EJ

As an owner of a small indie a kayak company I agree with EJ. there is things to worry.

but on the other hand .... (have to say this loud too )

Partially I like this EJ's hearsay because it is bying also bying of some competition from crowded market.

We should be worried with EJ if WS and Dagger would join forces in their own will becasue they might be twice as powerfull both.

Marko Hakolahti

DRAKKAR
www.drakkarkayaks.com

Did someone say "Corporate kayaking sucks". Now where did I hear that?

Lets face it chaps, in just about all the sports and activities we do, most of the gear is made by "Uber corporations". If you're a skier, unless you're on Amarda or Line, you're skiing Uberski's. If you're on a computer, unless you're part of the 5% on Mac, you're pretty much part of the mass of sheep using Windows (where does Linux fit into this?). Thats life. Of course, whenever I can, I try to encourage the small guy. My road Bike was made by a small local company, I use Macintosh, I buy from the corner store, not Walmart, no matter how much cheaper thier price for the same thing might be.

But lets also face it... MOST people buy at Wallmart, work on Windows, and paddle Dagger! Most people are content with sub standard, cookie cutter products and service, and so I don't think it would make any differance what direction Wave Sort or Dagger went in, and how thier clones cloned themselves further, most people wouldn't even notice or care.

There are those discerning people that buy and use products that are above the rest, that do not contribute to the momentum of mediocrity, and that are not owned and run by a faceless corporation. They buy (if they're smart ) Dragorossi kayaks because for these sorts of people there is no alternative to originality and innovation.

But, what has me confused is that the rumour I heard was that it was EJ that bought Dagger, and not Wave Sport

Corran

I don't know how much difference it makes, 90% of the boat manufacturers out there right now are making the same basic boat anyway. Putting them all under the same corporate umbrella will just solidify the trend.

I say meh.

i think it is a good thing that kayak companies consolidate and merge. in the long run kayaks have to become cheaper so that the mass will jump in and buy as well as it then will be more affordable to just change the boat on a yearly basis.

people obviously will loose there job and especially the sponsored team paddlers will get less and less or better to say, the few which still do get sponsored will get more.

this wont stop development on the other side, as the extreme sector (rodeo and river) will still be the display/marketing for all of the companies to 'show off'. so to say the formula 1 of kayaking will still lead with developments and new boats will come out.

i do think there's a lot of ppl buyin g wintersport articles for a lot of money but most of them do ski the standard family run.

so overall i hope that ueber companies will churn out cheaper products for the masses and invest into developing big artifical waterparks with easy falls, big drops and easy lines in the megacities all over the globe to get more customers interested into the sport. (you can snowboard in bangkok for example. so why not kayak?)

for me/us as dinosaurs which like to go out as remote as possible and explore, discover new areas and cultures through kayaking things wont change. people which do this look for a different kick/turn on i think.

but i wouldn't be able to imagine a mass of ppl buying porsche 911, even while they still sell. But toyota corolla is a mega seller as it is affordable and produced for the masses. now i am not sure if numbers count the same in the kayak industry as it does with car manufacturing but..?!

so a good solid allround boat for 400-500$ (or less) might let people at least try it.
it then wont be a 2000+ investment (including pfd, paddle etc., etc.,).

so back to the basics and let people believe that they can go kayaking by promoting 'normal' rivers and not only megafalls and floodstage kayaking. we all need to remember our first meager attempts at kayaking before we try to get people to do what we think is easy.

Good Boats are good boats. I don’t think it is a matter of who makes the most boats. It seems to be that people like boats that fit them and perform well. Having the boat at the local shop to try out and sit in and be able to get a new one when their boat breaks without a big problem. That seems to be what makes people buy these cookie cutter boats. There also seems to be quite a few boat companies’ that will never be bought out. There will always be the little guy. We hope

………………………………………………………………………KP

[quote:a73979257e="Bruce in London"]Corran,


I'd like to see you let someone take a tour through your house and catalog all the corproate stuff that you have purchased. You may be different in some ways but I'd bet you feed on the corporate world like a majority of the world.

Cheers,

Bruce[/quote:a73979257e]

Oh, there's a lot of it for sure. Absolutely. Because sometimes you HAVE NO CHOICE. My TV is a sony. Corporate as it gets. So are my video camera's. Hard drives are corporate. So is my car - dodge caravan. In many mnya things in life you have no choice. But then there are places wher you do. For example, as I said, I don;t buy at Wallmart no matter HOW cheap it is there. I use a Mac, no windows. Yes, its still a corporation (so is Dragorossi), but has Microsoft ever held design seminars where someone like me can go talk to the who's who of Microsoft and exchange ideas? never. mac does this, and THIS is the differance. Whats the differance between Nike and Vans? Both are corporations? Nike does not give back to the community, and they make thier shoes in Taiwan. Vans makes (some) of thier shoes in California, they build skate parks for kids, and a re part of the community. You can go out and meat the owners of Vans and chit chat with them, ON THIER boards ou in the pars. No way with Nike. This is the differance. When possible, I support companies who's owners are a part of the community they target. I buy my coffee from a lady who goes sailing with us sometimes, not from Starbucks (unless I have no choice - on the road).

You are right. Vans markets their shoes, just like Nike. Mac markets thier computers just like Windows (or PC's). But despite this, there IS a differance between these companies, and that was my point.

But at least you're thinking - your post made that obvious!!!

Corran

"Not all the companies owners take the time to answer emails personally. Ask-EJ... cool. on the other hand: who the hell is then the owner of Dagger now... would he/she/them answer my questions personally? "

This was my point by the way. You can email EJ, Celliers, and me and you'll get a response. Heck, I have people emailing me trying to decide between a Vision and a S7 and I respond. Who at Dagger is going to repond to you? Marketing person of the month?

This is the differance I'm talking about.

Corran

This is fantastic news. One for the price of two. Where there is smoke there is fire and long may this one burn. It’s great seeing the corporate companies feeding off each other like vultures and this being an answer to there ever present desire to dominate and grow their market share. For sure these companies have played a huge role in the development of the sport and must be commended for there contribution but this is evolution baby and it’s all good for the boaters and the smaller more personable companies.

It’s a sign of the times and since when was kayaking ever a corporate sport anyway. These guys have had a great innings controlling the industry through retail outlets, magazines etc but do you really think the fat boys in the board rooms actually give a toss about the kayakers. Do you think they will be losing any sleep over weather the likes of Marc Lyle keeps his job at the end of it all. After all he’s a great guy and only dedicated his life to shaping kayaks. I think they are only concerned in trying to monopolize the industry.

Well fear not kayakers because there is a new breed of kayak companies emerging and getting stronger by the day. This is the future of the sport and long may it prosper and grow. Kayakers making kayaks for kayakers………….

so what is corporate...and what is not..?

am i a corporation because i employ people..?..or should i do all by myself..?j

i am designing, stitiching, testing and selling my products all by myself. but the moment a shop comes and wants to sell this for me, will i be a corporation and no one wants to buy my items anymore..?because i am employing people in a foreign country, pay them tripple the wages anyone else would do and give an opportunity for people in a third world country (i am living there by myself) to earn bucks in a clean factory environment..??

it is easy to scream industrial colonization but looking at the happy faces of people when they go to their walmart or any other market chain buying their cheap whatever...

or do you think that any of the nice plastic toys are all good..??

people complain about the dams while they kayak anbd call them\selves green...walk all proud around and clean campsites but are the biggest poluter...

ever thought about how much of oil you need to produce this fancy plastic toy?!?!? how much you fart out of you cars exhaust pipe while driving to your favorite river/s..??fly to foreign countries to go kayaking there...??start discussing dam projects worldwide and never opened the eyes and your own poluting factor...?//

same with the cars...how many cars are manufactured back home..?...parts are manufactured all over the globe, shipped to a robotized assembly line somewhere and sold to you...

THE CHEAPER THE BETTER...

so anyone here talking against corporates is walking on thin ice, as already your/our capitalistic market system does force us to think corporate.

i want to see one of the companies out there cutting himself into the meat to provide you with something cheaper...

as i, everyone out there from the smaller designers i think wants to keep on going boating...so you start doing something which hopefully in the long run will feed you, your hunger for travelling and kayaking as well as some peoples extravacancies (whatever they are) and then the family, and then the house and the car and the dog and the girlfriends and..

so when do you start to think corporate..??

i think the moment you have a company...does not matter DAGGER, DRAGO, EJ or anyone else you have and do think corporate...

there are small fish jealous about the big fish and there are many fish chewing off the small fish while they think about the big fish.

how local can you think when you travel the world and want to rely on quality..?

will you buy a cheap brazil made boat from worked out old dagger molds manufactured from cheap plastic (400$ possibly the same for your airfare)? or hope that some of these corporations (more and more do) realize their social responsibility and put some of their money into social issues ( i mentioned the waterparks). and you still can show up with your new shiny plastic toy and impress the girls...

i do believe, that with more and more money the big companies can and will make a difference in the development. so to speak if they (say wavesport becomes dagger or the other way round) have the bucks, they might just show up with some very new way of making a boat.

but if you only turn out 1000 boats a year, then most of the chemical giants will laugh at you when you ask them about developing something special for the paddling sport.

by recognizing the quality of dagger boats, most other boats will fade (someone mentioned wavesports falling apart) and i do think, it is the reason, that dagger had/has enough backup (RPM made them a lot of money) to push into this direction to develop not only new and newer designs but also manufacture them solidly.

the smaller designers turn out great boats but i do think it is going to be a very big headache, as at the moment the development has reached a plateau (apart from the interior design) and usually the design is what can give a smaller company the edge to move ahead into the retail markets.

so back to the story..EVERY COMPANY IS CORPORATE....

or EJ has to sell boats handmade in his garage to the people which come...no advertising, no retailers no anything....otherwise you have to be and have to think corporate...

It's no secret that Eurotank make DR (and Rainbow and AcquaGioca and Shockwave). The point about that is that they (Eurotank) had the money and the belief that their investment (however considerable) will be worth while. From what I can make out THIS is why they gave Corran almost complete free reign over direction and creation - how many other parent companies are going to offer this to their daughters? Did Watermark? Do ACS? Do VooDoo? I think we all know the answer to this!!!

Big up to the new breed of kayakers making and designing the whole structure of thier company, from design through to putting bums in seats. Long live DR, JK & Fluid.

Hey Slim - I think that WAS my point.

Good luck with it all.

MD

triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2005/05/09/daily32.html

OK, now it is official- American Capital Strategies owns both Dagger and Wavesport (and all of the other brands that fall under Watermark or Confluence in kayaking)

I jumped the gun on my initial article on this subject some months ago, apparently the closing got pushed off. Now it is official. On Friday the employees of Dagger were all fired, on Monday, the ones that ACS wants to keep will be rehired. This is all internal stuff that won’t effect the kayaks, only the employees that worked there, and since many of them are my friends, I have gotten an earful this past weekend. The good news is that Kelly Woolsey is going to be the main man when it comes to sales and marketing, it seems. Team Dagger and Team Wavesport had their first meeting together, compliments of Confluence and Kelley Woolsey. It was a preview of things to come, good or bad, each person must decide after more things start to happen. I am really hoping that Dagger employees all got hired back today, and not too many lose their jobs.

I am still trying to fathom the concept the number one and number two kayak companies collaborating instead of competing. 60% of all whitewater kayaks sold in the USA will be sold by the one new company under the Dagger and Wavesport names. This kind of power in the marketplace will be fun to watch and see how it is received by the customers and dealers. I think it will be fine. Hopefully Jackson Kayak can continue to represent the kayakers at the grass roots level on a one on one basis, earning each sale one at a time with a better product, and that will give us the advantage we need to compete against the monolith that was created last week.

I got a couple of angry emails from my article last time, saying that it wasn’t my business to post questions, opinions, or facts about this buyout of Watermark. I certainly don’t want to upset anybody, however, it would not be fair to anybody to either pretend nothing happened and nothing will happen and things in whitewater are the same as before. Since nobody can predict the future, I can only raise the questions and look at the past to perhaps get a preview. Most importantly, I want to involve you, the kayakers of the world, into the process of thinking about how things evolve and change, instead of not knowing things changed until it is too late to have an opinion.

My questions are:

1. How long until the merger takes one brand down like the Perception/Dagger Merger only a few years ago, or will it? Perception was the world’s biggest seller of whitewater kayaks in 1998, number 2 in 1999 and 2000, and dropped to practically non-existent today. Will Wavesport or Dagger take the axe or is there a way to save both? Can Dagger employees compete against Wavesport when they have no secrets in R+D? Perception couldn’t, but it is a new deal.
2. What will happen to the key Dagger people? Will any Dagger people take over Wavesport or Confluence jobs?
3. Will Jackson Kayak be hurt or helped by the merger, or will it matter at all?
4. Will Team Dagger get cut down, or stay the same? Team Perception athletes all became Team Dagger athletes around 2002, will all Team D athletes become Team Wavesport?
5. Will the dealers benefit or be hurt? Will all Wavesport dealers have access to Dagger and vice versa? That is a big question for all dealers I’m sure!

What will Jackson Kayak do different? Nothing. Is this merger about Jackson Kayak or any other brand? No, it is about American Capital Strategies and how they want to run their businesses. For more information on their company you can go to their website and check it out. They are a multi-billion dollar company, but that is about all I know.

Again this article is so kayakers can be in the know about the news in the industry.

Jackson Kayak will tell you everything we know about us, our owners, etc. as it unfolds, hopefully this is a good thing.

Any angry emails from this article will be read, so feel free to send them, and I will respond. I hope that nobody will be upset from this article, because I am only reporting what happened and asking the key questions, with my opinion on the answers. My opinion on the future is obviously only one person’s opinion, we’ll see what happens soon enough. Just like in U2’s song, “Time is a train, makes the future the past.” We’ll all have the answers whether we want to or not.

EJ

canoekayak.com/news/confluence/

Grass Roots business will be the winner

Sure I am linked to small companies and am hence biased, but the vast majority of people who paddle are all about karma, yin and yang, and facets that happen on the grass roots level. As has been mentioned paddling is a very small sport. I mean, you just have to look at this years worlds to see that paddling is no super bowl. Sure this takeover 'could' lead to a new stronghold or, more likely this may help the industry by creating a vacuum for more grass roots companies to fill.

An interesting time is upon us, and who knows what will happen.

jez
www.entropygear.com
Gone boating. Don't cry ladies, I'll be back

I've owned a WindRider trimaran, made by Confluence, for 5 years. Great boat but Confluence sucks all the way as far as customer support. No doubt the worse co. I have dealt with in my life. I don't see how this could be good news for Watermark.