Heya Everyone,

What do you think about Surf kayaking?
Do you think its growing in popularity?
Do you think the playboats on the international market these days are too orientated on river pladdling?

What features would you like to see in a solely Surf orientated kayak? eg, stronger and sharper rails, fins, less weight, shorter boats, sharper noses....explaination as to why would be handy.
Cheers
B

I don't really see it growing in popularity where I am.

I surf kayak (in a Mr Clean 'retro' styled playboat/surf, not soely a surf boat).

Playboats are pretty good on ocean waves because they're easy and quick to manuver and I think the rocker bow helps beginners from bow diving and taking a swim so they have more time learning to surf instead.

I've never been in a composit surf kayak before so I can't comment on what they could improve on =)

Ash

Yeah i paddle a Mr Clean as well. It was my first kayak i used to rip up the waves. Just upgraded recently to a Prijon release,
...i dont have a solely surf composite boat, ive got a couple of surfskies though.

I guess i want to see more boats that are a mix between Small playboat + surfskis.

Something that can gain speed and rip into a barrel without sliding out while still being able to throw your self into a loop, blunt, or airscrew...

You would think that surf kayaking would be becomming more popular....The surfs got knarly whitewater, as well as smooth green faces that are just wanting to be shreded!

Anyway with regards to what you would like to see in a surf boat...theres no right or wrong... im just looking for ideas.

i got a rad and go out at tay st quite a bit its sweet in the waves easy to get out and gives a great ride back in

I think from what im reading here that you might want to check out Mr. Addisons range of Dragorossi's. Meant to be the fastest thing on a wave and still able to play the river, not a beginners boat though apparently!
Plus i totally agree, why arent people in the surf? When it's HUGE it's terrifyingly fun....found that out a couple of weekends ago...
Dolly!

i would hit: nesurfkayakers.com and surfzone at BT for more info....

nesurfkayakers.com majority of the baots in there are over 8ft.

cheers for the site too, alwayslooking for more media.
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Dolly, yeah ive been looking at the Squashtail, Stinger, thruster and Fish...i think ive downloaded most of the videos and watched how they perform. The squashtail tail and thruster are sick! Both of these boats are probably the closest thing ive seen between a surf ski and a small playboat.

The Mega Charger and Fury seem to have started from the surf ski perspective and worked towards playboats.... id love to catch a glimps of either a squashtail or charger on 2-3 meter swell...just thinking about its giving me tingles!

most river boats have too much rocker in them making them slow in the surf and tend to be pushed around on a wave. Sur kayaks have little rocker in them and with fins on the high performance/ open class are being surfed in the same manner as short board and waveskis. the long boats you are referring to are the International class which must be 3 metres or longer and no concaved surfaces or fins, these surf really well and have seen the top guys pulling helixs in them on the green wave land and continue the run.

It has been growing alot around me in South Wales and is nice to see more paddlers taking to the surf more in surf kayaks than river boats now.

The fury is a nice boat to paddle but has been replaced by the reflex similar hull more volume in the tail if you want a really good performing boat with the sharpest rails check out the fusion by Dbxclusive.co.uk,

I reckon if you look hard enough with the range of boats out there today, old and new you will find that mix of boat that you are talking about for you.
The problem is that boats are now designed for a certan function which is why they are the shape they are. If you want to go creeking you buy a creek boat, playboating a play boat, and surf kayaking a surf kayak trying to find a mix and perform in any one boat in all three catagories is impossible.
This is not to say you cant enjoy all 3 in one boat but they are designed for a certan function. Origionally boats started like this all in one but with devellopment and progression they are now seperate... this is for a reason.and there are boats out there which are a good mix like the booster, rpm, turbo but thay will never do exactly what you want when you see you mate beside you pulling moves you cant cos he has a boat designed to do that.

ive heard people say that surf boarders dont like kayay surfers i havnt com across this but i did have a talk with a boarder who reckoned that people who kayak surf arnt skilled and just get in the way maybe this clash of opinions is the reason for the slight lack of kayak surfers ?

jack

Ive read somewhere that its much more easy to accidently surf a kayak than a surfboard becasue of the differences in volume. This can lead to people unwittingly catching waves and being out of control and crashing into surfers....which i can only assume is pretty painful! I think as long as people give the surfers their space then it shouldn't lead to any unhappiness! (Plus, i nearly got hit by a surfer the other week! they're not all angels!)
Dolly!

The other thing as well is were in tanks and there on bords. If they hit us were all armoured up with BAs and helmets and the likes and if we hit them well \"good night\".
Another thing is i dont generally surf the waves i generally catch them do one big bounce move straight down the line and get off dont think the surfers like that either.

I have been board surfing for many (many) years. Now I surf 3-4 times a week in my Jackson 4FUN. I finally ordered a Neutron from Mega, a pure surf boat. It is a great shape but I am still adjusting to the difference in knee/leg position. The Jackson surfs very well for not having fins and I love the knees-wide position for stability. It feels very confident in the gnarly conditions at Ocean Beach, San Francisco. However, it is slow. I am still outfitting the Neutron and waiting for a properly fitting skirt to arrive. So I haven't really broken it in yet. I would really like to try a Squashtail. From the web it looks like it has the seating position of a play boat. It is nearly impossible to find surf boats around here to demo or even to look at in person. The field is also pretty narrow for paddlers my size: 6'2\" & 190lbs

Sorry, but to all those who have have praised the ability of plastic playboats in the surf i am afraid you are you are talking rubbish and you've obviously never surfed. Bouncing around in the mush in a plastic tea tray is not surfing. Even the squashtail does not compare to a true surf boat. Yes, on a river wave the squashtail is excellent, but it will always come a poor second to an out and out surf boat. They are just designed to do different things.
My advice to anyone starting surfing is to try one of the knew range of mega plastics kayaks - after the first time you truly surf ( and i mean surf along the wave not straight down it) you'll never want to bounce around in a playboat again. In fact you'll probably find that plastic is no longer fantastic and go for glass ( or better). Happy days!

I am coming into this discussion a little late bt here goes.

I have surfed every playboat I have owned and quite a few of other peoples, it is fun surfing playboats. I have also surfed a large selection of surf boats including most of the current models out there (apart from murky waters boats which are pretty rare around me) and this is really really fun, playboats just do not compare.

Surf kayaking seems to be growing in the UK at least with more people turning up to comps than ever before and I see far more people just out soul surfing in a kayak than ever before.

There are an amazing range of surf boats out there at the moment that are well worth playing with and now with the Mega plastic boats being so cheap it is easier than ever to get into the sport.

The current range of boats that I would recomend anyone try if they get the chance would be:

Mega:
Neutron / Scarab / Megatron (depending on how heavy you are)
Reflex
Slingshot
Impulse (feels more like a white water boat than ay other dedicated surf boat I have tried)
Short RR's (this is an odd little one that is not perfect for a lot of conditions but if you do get it out in the right conditions it is hell of a lot of fun)

Valley:
Rush (Very surf ski feel to this boat, performs quite similarly to the DB Xclusive Fusion in my opinion)

DBXclusive:
Fusion (similar to the Rush but with a better fin system and slightly shorter)

Murky Waters:
Reaction
Twist

I diagree with Urge tat the DBXclusive has the sharpest rails out there, I think it is much of a muchness between a lot of the top boats ad is more down to personal preference and which you get on with the best more than anything else.

I personally srf a Neutron HP boat, a Jester Cyclone IC boat and a 1978 Arrowcraft Surfyak if the conditions are small ad clean and I fancy a retro cruse. If money was no object however I would have a Reflex and Short RR's .

My advice is try as many as possable and find out what you like.

Denzil

Stoneweasal,
Since you have vast experience spread over the boats you listed could you fill in a bit more info. I have no experience with other boats except for my Jackson 4fun.
1-Which boats are suited to larger paddlers ( i am 6'2\" and 190lbs)?
2-I just recently got a new plastic Neutron, I have not been able to really surf it yet because I don't yet have a skirt that fits and I am still outfitting it so it's snug. I have floated it long enough to know that I can easily roll it. I am hoping that I will quickly get used to sitting with knees higher and closer together. This is a big concern to me because of a bad ankle (formerly broken) that does not like being super cramped. The Neutron puts me more squeezed to center line- with a long torso my center of gravity ends up pretty high. Do any of these surf boats allow a wider stance?
Sorry if \"too much info\".Thanks.

Hi there Buttsurfer,

Weight range wise you should be fine in Neutron although getting towards the higher end of the weight range scale for it (They get rather tippy if you are much over 200lbs although are still fine when on a wave). You might find you are slightly on the heavy side for a Reflex, Slingshot and short RR's although you might still find the boats ok. The impulse comes in two sizes and I would have thought that the larger size would float you very well. I would say you probably are a little heavy for the Rush but this was designed by Shaun Morley (Wee light fella that he is) based on his custom ski so essentially designed for someone around his weight range (I guess 130-170lbs ish would be fine). I am not sure what the Fusion would be like for someone your weight range as at ~165lbs I am the heaviest person I have seen surf it so far (Urge, any ideas on this one?). Unfortunately I have never surfed the murky waters boats so don't know how suitable they would be.

As for leg position the Neutron is actually edging slightly more to a white water leg / knee position than a lot of the surf boats out there but if you want a surf boat that has a nice wide knee position (white water boat style) then the Impulse is the boy for you, the seating position feels very playboat like. Dick World boats also apparently have a far more white water style seating position but I have only ever seen one Dick World boat in this country and have never surfed one myself, if you are state side based though there should be a lot more of these around for you to try.

Oh and as for the spreydeck issue with the HDP Neutron unlike most surf boats (which take small / riot size decks) standard white water boat decks seem to fit it best.

I hope that answers you questions but if you have more feel free to fire away,

Denzil

P.S. Urge, sorry dude but I found another point in your last post that I disagree with. The Reflex does not have a that similar hull to the Fury, the Reflex has a hull almost identical to the Neutron (i.e. More rocker, slightly higher rails and a very flat bottom) although you could argue that this is an evolution of the Fury hull.

Im a slalom paddler and last year had my first shot at surf kayaking and thought it was absolutely brilliant. I did my first session in an Ina Zone and all my other sessions in a Jester and the difference is amazing. Brilliant sport and i wish there were more courses up in Scotland. Has anyone got any information on courses up here, if so could up please sens me an email @ [mail address protected from spambots with javascript] . Thenks

Sure denzil im around the 11 1/2 to 12 stone or 178pounds??? (not quite sure if Ive worked that out right?) find the fusion works really well! ( pretty much the same size as yellow boy) It a really fast boat I found it to be much faster than my old revenge and way more fun plus my feet didnt hurt after 20mins for that matter

I have seen some people around the 13- 14 stone mark in it still ok but they could of done with slightly bigger version probably! or like you said try the neutron family or the impulse

have fun

Chris

i know that it is hard to get used to a surf boat like the neuton after paddling a playboat but i found that the valley storm allows slightly wider knees in the boat but i would still rather surf a mega.

This is what you are looking for... youtube.com/watch?v=2J-B4Fbx03c

Fluid Element

Buttsurfer wrote:

The Neutron puts me more squeezed to center line- with a long torso my center of gravity ends up pretty high. Do any of these surf boats allow a wider stance?

Have a look at the Fluid Element:
www.fluidkayaks.co.za/News_080107.htm

I'm getting mine next week, can't wait. It allows one to sit with your knees nice and wide. About the same as a play boat. I tried out a Mega Maverick in the holidays and sitting with your legs virtually straight is not fun at all. Like sitting in a log. The ouffitting also really sucked, big time.

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Play boats in the surf are good fun, no doubt about it. But of course they will never have the speed a surf kayak has and can't move about on the wave and up and down the face and drive into bottom turns and cutbacks. It's a different ball game and if you can accept that then you'll have fun in the surf no matter what you're paddling.

I see surf kayaking slowly increasing in popularity here on the East Coast of the U.S. All of the flat bottomed playboats are very fun to take out in to the ocean. Even though they get bouncy and slow when the waves get big, it's at least an introduction to the sport and some people end up with a composite surf boat after they discover that they like the ocean.

I (as well as some others) in the northeast are really enjoying the DragoRossi Squashtail. It's really a small ocean surfer with minor tweaks to make it useable on the river (instead of the other way around). Great in small break. Holds a line very well, and terrific fun on those crap closeout days. When the waves get big, the Squashtail is a very nimble pocket rocket of a boat. It has just enough speed to stay in the power pocket and out of the whitewater.
When things get super big, then you need a longer boat under you.

Anybody else notice that the last post in here was in 06 before MikeJ resurrected this?

As ScottBarnes said though, taking playboats in the ocean is a lot of fun. I've been doing it a bit recently and can now relate to the surf kayakers. Not sure if I'll ever get a surf kayak though. At the moment I'm enjoying just learning and trying to learn whitewater wave tricks in the ocean. But down the track, I think it'd be a lot of fun to have a proper surf kayak as well.

Anybody else notice that the last post in here was in 06 before MikeJ resurrected this?

As ScottBarnes said though, taking playboats in the ocean is a lot of fun. I've been doing it a bit recently and can now relate to the surf kayakers. Not sure if I'll ever get a surf kayak though. At the moment I'm enjoying just learning and trying to learn whitewater wave tricks in the ocean. But down the track, I think it'd be a lot of fun to have a proper surf kayak as well.

Man,

I startes at Kayaksurf with my Riot Turbo 47... very good surf machine... but now i tryed a new kind of surf experience called \"Lucifer\" from Watertech kayaks. You shoud try it... Better than any other surfkayak i ever paddled.
I am trying to get one Lucifer because it's not just another HP composit surfkayak... it's the new generation. I Paddled for the first time this boat with 3m wave... and i played with it... it was so easy to get fun in a such powerfull wave. I'm in Love for this new machine.

Try to see it on www.watertechkayaks.com
You can also find some pictures and Database in Playak.com

In Portugal, Surfkayaking is starting to be seen as a emergent paddle-sport.
It's translated in \"Lot's of Fun all the year\"

See you,

João Ramos

Fins DO make a big difference in the ocean.

I used to have a Turbo and it is a great surfer. Riot also has a boogie, which is an ocean surfer. Both can use fins.

DragoRossi Squastail I mentioned before is a surf boat that uses fins. For their river lineup, all of the playboats use fins, but the best surfers are the Fish (like the Turbo but more edge),and the Pintail (very fast)

Fluid Element has fins I'm sure.

Some of the old Pyranha SX have fins.

There was a year that the Dagger Kingpin had fins.

If you can find a plastic river boat that has fin boxes, then you can have the best of both worlds (until you discover that you really love ocean surfing, then you should just go composite)

Hi

i surfkayak regularly on the surrounding beaches where i live.
I find that the mega plastic, glass and carbon boats beat all of todays river boats. The moddern playboats are great for mucking about in the soup but the kayaks built for the green wave surfing are very fast, responsive and light.

In my opinion if your in the lineup and you want to surf and look slick and profesional, aswell as get the most out of the wave your rideing, use a surf kayak.


Dan

i surf when i can( dont live near the sea) and the only thing anoying about kayak surfers is that they tend not to see you in the water...but on the other hand this summer im taking my boat down to newquay and having a bash at kayak surfing but ill be in a playboat so ill se how it goes lol
Eliott