Author Topic: hollow board layup?  (Read 14771 times)

supuk

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2011, 06:12:16 PM »
the thread of my build was here on sway locks

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/hollow-composite-boardlayup?page=4


supuk

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2011, 12:45:43 PM »
just wondering does anyone have any close up pics of the outside of a aviso or any outher of the hollow boards out there to see were the carbon is joined ? many thanks

supuk

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2014, 06:26:45 AM »
 thought i would dig this back as recently i have keeped on looking at my hollow carbon board i built a few years ago and just cant get over just how dam bullet proof the thing is, i mean i can literally beat the thing with a stick and not even dent it.  The only thing that has got me is i have always wondered is how i could join the two half's better.  Since i built mine a few years ago there has been a number of other manufactures that have started to build hollow and was just wondering if any one had picked up any more on how they were being built or more importantly joined. There seams to be a pressurised bladder method but it seams like a tricky method to get 100% right every time and potential for big headaches. Ive been trying to look in to ideas for how it may be done in other applications like oc's and surf skies were they are totally sealed but have not found a lot on it.   

 Any one busted one open by accident and been able to take a look inside? or even a close up pic of some of the hollow boards like sic or 404?

Any secret mould making gurus out there? I have moulded many things over the years but this partly due to the scale must be one of the harder things ive had to do!




supLaz

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2014, 01:30:18 PM »
Hi Charlie,
concerning the questions  hollow board layup, I have already posted here unfortunately without success.

http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,22606.msg233706.html#msg233706

If you want to build a hollow board, which productions method  is to be applied?

VAC infusion,
hand layup
prepreg
curing, postcure method?
Laz

supuk

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2014, 03:56:46 PM »
the first board i did was just a standard hand layup vacuum bagged to two halfs and post cured which worked pretty well , tempted to try infusion but while it means you can lay it up all dry sometimes doing it wet helps keep it all in place in the mold and get a tight lam. The lay up i did with carbon and core cell was supper strong but want to try a few of the newer products out, but before that i really want to figure a better way to get a really nice joint.

supLaz

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2014, 06:25:11 AM »
In this case IMO is the safest less risk joint the shoebox method (if the tolerance between the hull lip and deck is right) which sufficient bonding areal.

Need first a vertical GFRP/CFRP lip laminated on the hull to create a proper bonding surface.
Actually the first steps to create therefor a tool should be made if you master model is yet in the hull mould and before you making the deck mould,  otherwise you have to put a finished product back in the hull mould.
That is tricky because you don’t know how precisely it’s fits back after de-moulded once.
If you master model with the flange isn’t available yet you can use a laminated deck in mould to make prints vice-versa and transfer  centerpoints correctly, it's dependent from the precision you wish requires just more effort.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 06:27:21 AM by supLaz »
Laz

supLaz

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2014, 11:05:07 AM »
As attachment  :)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 11:16:45 AM by supLaz »
Laz

supuk

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2014, 10:25:40 AM »
i think this is what i would call a joggle gasket type method and is something i was wondering about trying. I have been reading up about gliders and how they join there wing moulds and they use this metthod or simmilar on the leading edge. however due to the shape and often quite tricky shapes of the rails and the way the moulds can taper and curve the other option i was wondering was rather than making the shoe box vertical style joint wether using the same tooling method but making a horizontal surface the same level as the joint and then which the two halfs then just sat flat against each other. The reason i was thinking this is it would probably be a easier joint to get leak fee and apply the jointing glue to and would actually stiffen the rail a little however maybe more prone to weakness in the normal flex direction.

best regards

PonoBill

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2014, 11:01:37 AM »
SIC uses an overlapping piece that is laid up separately for the joint. It looks like the seam is on the side, but that's just the join line. I have som pics somewhere of the whole SIC build process.  Mark used to have a nice sequence on his website, but I don't think it survived the most recent update.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supuk

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2014, 01:11:28 PM »
thanks for that info bill would love to see the pictures if you have them, i had not thought of making a totally separate pice thats not a bad idea.

supLaz

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2014, 05:01:22 AM »
making a horizontal surface the same level as the joint and then which the two halfs then just sat flat against each other.

best regards

Can not really follow your thoughts, why  so focused on horizontal bonding surface.
We not have a  “shoebox” as a known term (box with a cover) but a box with 2 ~ similar half’s, that means different mechanical requirements.

A vertical, lets say a outer shell parallel bonding surface gives you a lot advances, inter alia:
Building the lip can be  laminated in one shot with the hull.
A +- 45 biax laminated lip leading the forces in required fiber direction btw. hull and deck.
Most effective bonding properties with max. shear load ability and a min. of peel and nip load.
Ability to influence the flex/stiffness of the board.
Helps centering deck and hull , occurs or reduce offset.


@ PonoBill

Hope you'll find the time to plow through your HDD's asap.   ;)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 05:04:22 AM by supLaz »
Laz

supuk

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2014, 01:41:42 PM »
mainly just form past experiences and the fact that the weight of the mould will be forcing the joint together and squeezing the jointing glue to form a good seal wear as the shoe box way that does not happen quite so much and more prone to small leaks. I can probably try boot methods with the same mould  so will probably just get on to making that then do some more testing.

UKRiverSurfers

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2014, 02:23:43 PM »
Just scanned your thread and this sounds amazing!!

How about building one for me!

I need something that's like an expedition board, that will handle almost any sea and take a few days/weeks worth of kit, spare paddle tie downs etc..

Like a SUP version of an expedition sea kayak?
SIC Bullet 17v2 Custom
Richmond Custom Carbon 16'
Starboard Point 14'8
Starboard K15
Starboard Astro Touring 14
Starboad Big Easy
Redpaddle Ride 10'6
Badfish Rivershred
Jackson SUPercharger
Badfish MVP 9'o
Badfish IRS 7'2
Pack OC1 12'

bef

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2016, 07:09:01 PM »
OK, I know this is an old thread, but it is the best one I have been able to find on this hollow board question.

We got bit by the SUP craze after buying a 12-6 touring board last fall for lake use.  Fantastic.  Problem is I am a maker/DIY type person and have 7 kids.  So for a family of 9, I figure I need 6 boards minimum.  So I want to make my own.  I have plenty of molding and composite experience to try this, but want to run a few things out there to try to limit my mistakes, or at least make my own new ones.

I have the board, going to clean it up and just make a splash of it.  I am happy with the shape and size, not going into production or selling them.  I also want the freedom to try out a few different and silly ideas.  Will probably end up making 8 to 10 of them, maybe more as my kids start playing with them and doing who knows what to them.

Seen a few pictures and videos of molds.  I am used to molds with a support structure behind them (egg crate?), so the simple flat mold will be a relief.  Also makes it easier for bagging.

So my questions are: 
How thick do others make the molds?  Edge of flange about 1/4"?  3/8" on body at ends, about 1/2" in the center sound good?

Foam core, what thickness have others used and what source?  I have an idea of what I want to try, no idea if it will work.  I will start a new thread to share my findings or trials.

Layups:  I am mostly going to stick with straight glass.  I do have some nice carbon, kevlar or a 80:20 kevlar : carbon hibred.  But mostly just glass.

Gelcoat a vinylester layup?  I figure this would be good for someone I want to give one to that they will leave lay outside by the pond.

Joint: Currently going to pursue a butt joint with internal flange like suplaz drawing indicates.

Curious what others have done.

Hope it is OK to resurrect this thread, it is a good one for the home brew builder!!!!

Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

PonoBill

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Re: hollow board layup?
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2016, 10:12:16 PM »
I haven't been up to SIC this year yet (very strange) so I'll go up and shoot some pictures of their process and their molds.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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