Author Topic: How to remain healthy long into old age  (Read 23186 times)

Zooport

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2014, 05:01:52 PM »
Faddish diets such as these are really useful to the extent that they make people feel better on a day to day basis.  For this, I applaud Dr. Fuhrmann and his like.  However, the notion that a specific variation of a generally healthy diet will predictably add years of life is pseudoscience, given the enormous web of complexity that determines human lifespan.  There is certainly a mortality benefit from avoiding the high-calorie, high-fat, diabetes inducing western diet.  However, there are dozens of avenues of moderation to make this happen.  Titles such as "Dr. Fuhrman's Immunity Solution" imply a pretty misleading profit motive, given that most people in the developed world already have reasonably healthy immune systems. Same story with the vitamin industry.

The human micro biome is a fascinating topic but is predictably the latest target for dietary fads (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/02/opinion/sunday/there-is-no-healthy-microbiome.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region&region=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region&_r=0).  However, as the NY times article describes, designing a study that shows that micro biome composition has a causative effect on long term health outcomes is extremely difficult.

Not eating crappy high calorie food, exercise, not smoking etc... all put the odds in one's favor.  However, I have seen hundreds of patients over the years who did all of these things the right way and developed cancer, or nasty autoimmune disease at an unfairly young age.   For this reason, I try with varying degrees of success to fill my life with laughter, fun forms of exercise, meaningful activities, etc.... with the goal of living longer, but more so to avoid having any major regrets if things were to change for the worse tomorrow. 
You obviously know light years more than I do about the human body, but let me reply to you out of my relative ignorance. 
This is not a fad diet.  It's mostly just good nutrition with an emphasis on specific vegetables and avoiding other foods.  I don't recall him saying that you will live longer with his method; he says you will live healthier.  I'm not too worried about how long I live as long as the life I have is not afflicted with stroke, Alzheimers or other diseases that would take the joy out of life. 

I agree that his claims are not testable with the scientific method, however, that does not mean they are BS.  I would hate to miss out on a specific twist on good nutrition that will improve the quality of my life just because it is not possible to test using the scientific method.  There is considerable anecdotal evidence, including my own, that supports his claims.


 
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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2014, 05:19:34 PM »
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supthecreek

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2014, 07:47:33 PM »
My Grandparents maintained a youthful glow into their later years... but then they were around well before processed food.

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2014, 09:15:23 PM »
Sorry Zooport. I didn't mean to sound disparaging.  I wholeheartedly support finding a diet that works for you and am glad it has improved your health.

My discontent stems from the fact that the guy is a salesman, not a scientist.  He has 3-4 publications in throw away journals which lack adequate peer review. His book titles such as "Disease Proof Your Children" play on the anxieties of the general public, and profit for this reason.  Most professional nutritionists use similar techniques to help people avoid cravings, maintain a balanced diet, and reverse metabolic syndromes.  He is not selling anything new. He is just selling it better.

Zooport

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2014, 05:15:49 AM »
Sorry Zooport. I didn't mean to sound disparaging.  I wholeheartedly support finding a diet that works for you and am glad it has improved your health.

My discontent stems from the fact that the guy is a salesman, not a scientist.  He has 3-4 publications in throw away journals which lack adequate peer review. His book titles such as "Disease Proof Your Children" play on the anxieties of the general public, and profit for this reason.  Most professional nutritionists use similar techniques to help people avoid cravings, maintain a balanced diet, and reverse metabolic syndromes.  He is not selling anything new. He is just selling it better.
Thanks, Blue Crab, I did not take your comments in any negative way.  I really appreciate the insight from another doctor, other than the one who pointed me to this book.  As you might guess, she is a DO who practices regular medicine and also holistic medicine. 

As you can see above, Supthecreek provided pictures of some of her other patients.  :)
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eastbound

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2014, 05:31:32 AM »
eat plants as much as possible, unprocessed, real food plants--eat organic at least in the case of the ewg's "dirtty dozen"--meticlously wash all plants product eaten

eat animals and animal products that have eaten real food--all organic (no antibios hormone and other poisons, thk you), grain fed, free range ifpossible--if it's too pricey, eat lees animal product

avoid processed carbs--only whole grains where possible--skip any white flour or white rice products wherever possible

avoid all processed diet foods--like mayo--eat real mayo--if youre tempted to buy 50% less fat chemically re-manufactured mayo, just use half as much real mayo on your next sandwich

avoid any artificial chemical-based wonder foods, incl all artificial sweeteners--poisonous shit all of it--recent studies have shown the chemicals fock with digestive biome, to net effect of actual weight GAIN! and the shit's poison anyway--use organic cane sugar, honey maple syrup sparingly

eat nuts often for protein
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tribalthunder

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2014, 07:08:35 AM »
eat plants as much as possible, unprocessed, real food plants--eat organic at least in the case of the ewg's "dirtty dozen"--meticlously wash all plants product eaten

eat animals and animal products that have eaten real food--all organic (no antibios hormone and other poisons, thk you), grain fed, free range ifpossible--if it's too pricey, eat lees animal product

avoid processed carbs--only whole grains where possible--skip any white flour or white rice products wherever possible

avoid all processed diet foods--like mayo--eat real mayo--if youre tempted to buy 50% less fat chemically re-manufactured mayo, just use half as much real mayo on your next sandwich

avoid any artificial chemical-based wonder foods, incl all artificial sweeteners--poisonous shit all of it--recent studies have shown the chemicals fock with digestive biome, to net effect of actual weight GAIN! and the shit's poison anyway--use organic cane sugar, honey maple syrup sparingly

eat nuts often for protein
     Great advice Eastbound. The bottom line is to eat as pure as you can. I started my health awareness in my early 20's and started cutting out sugar and white flour which led to cutting out red meat which led to giving up all animal products and evolved into  eating as much organic plant based foods as I could find and eventually learning to grow my own food. I'll be 60 in January and all these things become just a normal way of life.
     I still enjoy a beer and pizza (vegan style) and sweets ( with maple syrup of fruit juice). Making the change is easier than you think, not only am I not deprived, I eat more and enjoy it more than anyone I know.
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eastbound

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2014, 09:19:20 AM »
i hear you tt, and think vegan is likely the best way--but i enjoy dairy, beef, fowl and fish.
i think beef and dairy if from organic grain fed cattle is way less bad that factory product, and i am not plaquing up at 55, so far (based on blood worak and carotid and chest scans)--of course there are other respectable reasons not about one's health for which to go vegan--but i havent gotten there yet.

last item--eat lots of bottom of food chain fish--i love good quality sardines, eat them all the time--lowest in mercury, loaded wiuth healthy oils, minimal pcb's--sux that much fish has been rendered pretty poisonous at this point--sux that our global fisheries are being destroyed

sharks get hungry when their normal prey has been plundered/near eliminated by us--many think sharks will be more visible near shore as deep water fisheries get further depleted--tt, youre a vegan surfer--karma will protect you!
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tribalthunder

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2014, 09:54:07 AM »
i hear you tt, and think vegan is likely the best way--but i enjoy dairy, beef, fowl and fish.
i think beef and dairy if from organic grain fed cattle is way less bad that factory product, and i am not plaquing up at 55, so far (based on blood worak and carotid and chest scans)--of course there are other respectable reasons not about one's health for which to go vegan--but i havent gotten there yet.

last item--eat lots of bottom of food chain fish--i love good quality sardines, eat them all the time--lowest in mercury, loaded wiuth healthy oils, minimal pcb's--sux that much fish has been rendered pretty poisonous at this point--sux that our global fisheries are being destroyed

sharks get hungry when their normal prey has been plundered/near eliminated by us--many think sharks will be more visible near shore as deep water fisheries get further depleted--tt, youre a vegan surfer--karma will protect you!
Eastbound, You are doing what I advise the peeps, if you need to eat animals, make them free range and organic. It's an evolution and no one, including me makes all the changes overnight, so keep making better choices and evolving as I am still learning and add/try things all the time.
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Eagle

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2014, 11:47:30 AM »
IMO - just do what works best for you personally.  You have specific genes that no one else has and you may be predisposed to certain genetic traits that limit how much and what you can eat or drink.  May be good to not follow the masses in certain circumstances.  Get blood tests and do your research.

Was told by multiple doctors for 15 years that I was pre-disposed to simply having high LDL cholesterol.  Did a ton of detailed research this past year and plenty of our own protocol tests - and dropped my lipids to normal.  Our entire family has followed our new protocol - no deprivation of anything - everyone does their own thing.  All feeling much better and excess weight has vanished - difference - we tested specific knowledge that works for us.

Health and happiness are #1.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 11:59:37 AM by Eagle »
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Zooport

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2014, 12:43:52 PM »
I'm curious; what protocol did you adopt?
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Eagle

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2014, 01:25:21 PM »
We developed our own and still are early in the testing phase to determine if health changes and weight loss are "permanent".  It seems that specific individualized health care and fitness may be key moving forward for many.



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Zooport

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2014, 07:31:30 PM »
Yeah, that's pretty much what I did too.  I don't buy into everything the Dr. Furhman is saying, but I agree with his basic concept.  I eat tons of the leafy, green veggies he suggests, but I'm not doing some of his other ideas.  I've hybridized things from several books and come up with my own plan that seems to be working well for me.   No matter how you slice it, it's really all just good nutrition and exercise. 
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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2014, 02:36:24 AM »
Based on my family history, the idea that genetics is key sure makes sense.  My dad's side seemed to be almost unaffected by horrible health habits.

One wrinkle though--the idea that some people live a long time despite horrible diets is only true to the extent we understand diet.  Some of the common dietary habits of people who are a generation or two older than us have been labeled horrible, but may not be at all.  The grandpa who eats bacon, eggs, butter and coffee every morning, and red meat regularly for dinner, may have a much healthier diet than his children who avoid eggs, fat and meat. 

So in a way, genetics is a mask.  If genetics weren't there as a factor, we'd be forced to re-examine current assumptions about diet, because we couldn't immediately assume anyone who's old but not eating based on the current standard assumptions about diet must be alive due to genetics.


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supthecreek

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Re: How to remain healthy long into old age
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2014, 09:05:08 AM »
Just an observation:
I was drawn to SUP forums for info about boards.... but:

The single most important thread to me, was strandleper's on the Zone.... "How are you getting Primal?"
It literally changed my life... and my kids lives.... and my ex-wife's life. We are all so much healthier, thinner and constantly assessing our food sources.
After that great start, I appreciate the continued conversation relating to health and well being.

When I shared the joy on another SUP forum, I was shouted down... "We don't come to a SUP forum to read about diet fads" ... the thread died a quick and painful death. Oh well  ???

My point:
The Zone is a rich resource for so many topics that lead to fuller enjoyment of SUP and life in general.
So much thoughtful discussion, by so many fine thinkers.... I thank you all :)

Follow up:
Financial limits and rising costs of everything "organic" led to a slow gain of 15 lbs this year, so conversations like this help me to find a balance between affordable and healthy.... it shows me areas to focus my limited resources, to maintain good health and fitness.

I'm a happy loser again ;)

As is my way... pictures to back up the words.

 


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