Author Topic: Light DW <25 knots contenders  (Read 16533 times)

Luc Benac

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Light DW <25 knots contenders
« on: June 24, 2018, 03:05:32 PM »
Seems that there are a few kicking around some even approved by Burchas :-)

1) SIC Bayonet
2) Infinity Downtown
3) Jimmy Lewis Rail
4) Bullet V2

I am wondering if these provide a higher fun factor than the all around boards that can downwind in under 25 knots flatwinder, downbreezer and light downwind?

1) Bark Vapor Ghost
2) SIC RS
3) Naish Maliko

And that is without going into clogs.
I do like the easy life of having a go to board like the Vapor that will not let you down regardless of the conditions.
When the summer comes I am always wondering if I could get a few more bumps in light conditions by having a newer generation light downwind board.
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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2018, 05:29:21 PM »
Outside of the Vapor, I tried all listed boards in downwind/downbreeze settings.

Bayonet 14 is first on my list for fun factor on slow wind conditions.
Maliko is the all-around winner for fun factor and it can downwind anywhere.

But for really light conditions, the unlimited are the best fun I have ever had,
Bayonet 17 was so much fun, so is my own 16. Once I get them up to speed
they keep on giving.

in progress...

Luc Benac

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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2018, 05:53:24 PM »
That is an even bigger budget  :P. not going to see one of these used fro a long time.
Maybe if we get a Canadian distributor for SIC and 17.1 board can lend safely here.

What you have not tried the Vapor!!! You have been seriously remiss here.

I still try to get my ACe-GT out but for shuttle it is a little bit of a problem...
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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2018, 06:45:48 PM »
What you have not tried the Vapor!!! You have been seriously remiss here.

I hear it's all Bark and no bite ;D But who knows, I might hit you up one of these days
just to right that wrong.
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Luc Benac

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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2018, 07:00:04 PM »
What you have not tried the Vapor!!! You have been seriously remiss here.

I hear it's all Bark and no bite ;D But who knows, I might hit you up one of these days
just to right that wrong.

It is not an extreme board by a very long shot. It is not the fastest board. It is not the lightest board. It is not the sexiest board. But it is the most comfortable board in short side chop and washing machine conditions.
The only two things that prevent it from being the perfect board are IMO:
1) Could be a bit faster on "flat"
2) Could catch bumps on sub-par conditions a little bit easier
If I could have a "fast" Vapor for these conditions and a normal Vapor taking over when it is windier, I would be just fine. ANd then again not sure it is worth scratching your head about which board to take.

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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2018, 02:53:50 AM »
I’m not sure I’d call the Vapor an all-rounder, particularly, because most all-rounders are actually a bit skewed towards the flat (or inland) water market, whereas the Vapor really is an ocean board. I kinda see it as in the same category as a Bullet V2.

You’ve asked about downwinding fun. That’s a tricky one, because what is fun is so different from person to person. It’s easier to say what is fastest, but what is fastest is IMO rarely the most fun, once you are past the “absolutely awful” category. But if you are a competitive type then all you will care about is how fast you can average, even if the experience is so unpleasant and difficult that it’s like firing nails into your own genitalia while at full stretch with a nail gun. One-handed and eyes closed.

So you’d need to define what you mean by fun. I find a board fun if it can get me into bumps easily and safely, and allow me to “surf” the bumps. I quite like using a bit of footwork rather than standing bolt still in the same spot, but I don’t want to have to dance around like a madman on amphetamine. I also find fun a board I can trust to cope with pretty much anything that Mother Nature can throw at me: I don’t want to find myself stranded 2 miles offshore completely unable to make headway against a 30-knot crosswind. I live in a place with strong and unpredictable winds. I don’t want a board that is dog slow, but being fast downwind for me is often about control, early planing, and ease of use. I don’t race and I’m not a hyper-fit kid, so I am fastest on a board that makes my life easier, not the board that could theoretically be faster with Kai Lenny on it.

The lighter and smaller the winds get, the more you can use boards that approximate flat water ones and still have fun, if you are like me. But personally I nearly always prefer the paddling experience of the DW-oriented boards, even if I’m going a fraction slower. I also like stability, and stability counts more for me in terms of speed and control than a lot of other things. But then this is probably because I’m a top-heavy wobbly old geezer. I want a stable platform from which to power into bumps. But if you are a “cyclist’s build” and are young then you’ll probably want the narrowest board you can use, and reducing drag is the principal way for you to be fast.

So it’s very hard to say what will be “more fun” for someone else. And that’s even before you consider how different boards suit different conditions, quite apart from wind speed.

yugi

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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2018, 05:41:55 AM »
^ exactly.

I like planing, carving and a board that can also go fast on flat since I want a quiver of one. Also, of course, a board that excels in chop and goes faster than others upwind. JL Rail is perfection for that.

That comment on 17'ers be awesome in light DW I found odd. I presume it is meant in a place with a big swell as well.

Otherwise i find them far too sticky and heavy to be any good in a light DW. They come into their own one conditions get good enough to keep them going once they actually have lift off.

Proof everything is different for different people.

Luc Benac

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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2018, 06:30:40 AM »
but being fast downwind for me is often about control, early planing, and ease of use. I don’t race and I’m not a hyper-fit kid, so I am fastest on a board that makes my life easier, not the board that could theoretically be faster with Kai Lenny on it.

Same idea. I am curious to see if these new generation DW board:

1) SIC Bayonet
2) Infinity Downtown
3) Jimmy Lewis Rail

or Allwater boards
2) SIC RS
3) Naish Maliko

would be able to pick-up and link bumps in light conditions (15 knots) and weak chop - faster and easier than the Vapor.

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yugi

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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2018, 07:27:21 AM »
Do you windsurf and understand windsurf board subtleties?

I find lightwind quick board planing to be very similar regarding tail shape between lightwind windsurfs and DW SUP's.

in light wind DW:
- The Bullet remains one of the quickest to plane boards in light wind DW. It is straight underneath from midway to back. But it isnt the funnest to carve and slaps too much going upwind. 
- The Maliko surprisingly I find a bit sticky for light DW. It’s a great allround raceboard and nice in chop but light DW not as quick up on a plane as I expected. For deep short waves the very straight nose needs a very skilled rider. The very straight tail means it is less of a carver. More of a walk to the back, sink and twist turner.
- The Rail, with it’s constant curve, is a dream to carve. But needs a bit more wind and waves to jump up on a plane. If you know how to help a board get up on a plane every light board, like this it becomes much easier. It is as light as a Maliko and a very esthetic shape. The sharp sleek nose is, IMO, the best for upwind chop riding. Which is what you’d be doing on a up/down in lightish wind where a dropoff is hardly worth it. Not as fast as the Maliko on flats but much much faster than other DW boards like a bullet. It's light weight ,v good flat water speed, how it excels in chop especially upwind, and super fun on DW  is an ideal  compromise for me.
- Bigchucky high siderails are hard to bury to carve. I like the look of the Bayonette (haven’t ridden yet) but suspect I won’t like the high corky nature of it. I’m very much an aficionado of low decks  even if 4-5 months of the year the water I ride in is crazy cold.
- the utrawide tail of the RS might make it a quick planer. I'm guessing from the channels and the outline not so much of a real carver. Love the low deck.

Personally I like a kick in the tail for fun turning when things get going. But basically the less kick you got the quicker a board jumps up onto a plane. Where on that trade-off you will find nirvana is very much up to you, your conditions, your nimbleness and your weight and power.

Your Vapor must keep your feet warm. I imagine the Bayonette would have that advantage too.

The new boards you list all sound good. Each has it's own character. Some I can tell without having tried yet. Organize a trip where you can try them all out.

So it’s all going to depend on what you’re looking for and how your boardhandling is. For example I’m not in agreement with some of Burkas board impressions. And I’m not surprised. I have the same differences with other riders vis a vis ski and bike preferences. Depends so much on how you like to ride.

C’est la vie.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 07:58:21 AM by yugi »

Luc Benac

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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2018, 08:01:08 AM »
I am not desperate to get a new board (unless I can sell my flat water board :-) ) then they could be $ for a new board.
During the summer we flatwind, downbreeze and on a good day downwind in our inlet. The thermal system sometime does not get up to speed and leave us having to paddle our heart out to get on a small bumps or link any. At that stage, it is not really so much about carving as of getting a board early as possible on a bump and  keeping a board "planning" to link.
I was wondering if DW boards with higher volume and sharpish rails might help there?

I should be able to try a Rail and a Bullet V2 side-by-side with the Vapor (but the Bullet V2 is likely very close from teh Vapor).
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yugi

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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2018, 10:20:58 AM »
For keeping a board "planning" to link: the trick, IMO, is in the steering. I like a sharp rail to carve it. Our bigger conditions are also irregular so it's all about placing the board well. And that is where the fun is at.

For that I prefer a pointy nose board. I find the bigger wider noses, once they touch the water, can become sticky if at lower speeds and can pull you off the plane. The round nose boards are forgiving in bigger woo-hoo-I’m-just-hanging-on conditions. When angling down a wave the pointy boards are easier for me.


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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2018, 11:21:43 AM »
In my experience the Fanatic Falcon absolutely destroys the SIC in anything less than perfect epic conditions. The Fanatic captures every shape, size, and angle of ocean energy SO easy, without needing strong winds, hard paddling, or much up-and-back footwork. It's also very resistant to ugly cross chop, sub-optimal wind angles, small and mixed bump sizes, etc. Stupidly easy board that converts marginal or frustrating conditions into a playground. I finish the marginal conditions downwinder on my Fanatic with a smile on my face, then I get comfy and wait 20 minutes for my buddy on the SIC or AllStar to finish, grumpy and cursing. I wouldn't call the Fanatic a clog since it has a flat deck.
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Luc Benac

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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2018, 11:34:39 AM »
I am going to paddle side by side a JL Rail and my Vapor - about the same volume.
It might be that my Vapor is already as good as it gets on light conditions and I should not look at greener pastures that do not make any difference after all.
It is sure great when there is more wind.
Fundamentally I like boards low on the water like the Vapor or dugout. Each time I got up an All Star I simply hated the volume and high position over the water.
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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2018, 11:36:08 AM »
Has anyone on the Coast or Island tested the Canadian brand, Kahuna Molokai DW?

The shape is somewhat like a Bullet and the deck is slightly cut in. It seems like it could be an option for these mixed conditions. 14 X 27.5" but the volume and weight are all over the map from the different retailers. Kahuna is now stating it is 30 pounds + or - 10%. I have lifted one off the stand at a shop in Nelson and it was definitely well below 30 pounds, and some retailers have it listed as 26 pounds, which seems about right. I'm going to try and take it for a quick paddle in the near future.

I don't know anything about the brand other than it being Canadian, with an expanded line up these days.

2499.00 for the Molokai includes a board bag, paddle and leash. Valhalla Pure in Nanaimo  has it on sale for 1990.00. In a market where board prices are ridiculously over inflated, and set to get even more expensive, this is a really good deal for a sub 30 pound DW board. Of course the shape has to work, and the quality needs to be there. It passed the initial eye ball test anyways ;)

Luc Benac

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Re: Light DW <25 knots contenders
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2018, 11:59:07 AM »
No idea where they have their boards made. If it prove to be a good design, it is quite nice to have a local brand.
Not sure why they would sell a paddle with the board but a fitted bag is always nice. If you get it, we can try it DW in Howe Sound this summer :-)
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