Author Topic: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations  (Read 9855 times)

yugi

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2018, 04:25:09 AM »
Size does matter!

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krash

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2018, 07:22:19 AM »
You know I seldom try to argue my point with the authority, especially the one holding a gun and who could make my day miserable. I generally agree and ply the dumbness card. You can make your argument in court.
I've been stopped on more than on time on the water in all types of water-craft by all kinds of LEO, and they almost always check pfd's. I am also one who seldom if ever wears one, even though on my SUP I have a small simple waist band wearable type III.

Always wonder why its not my choice, (like a motor cycle helmet), if I wear one when paddling my kayak, canoe or SUP or why a surfer does not, and what about swimmers ?

Here is an article I found on the inter-web that explains this issue from a sailors point of view:
https://www.thoughtco.com/legal-requirements-for-inflatable-pfds-2915456

Following are the legal requirements for using an inflatable:

The PFD must be USCG approved, as indicated by a label on the PFD. (Some early models were not approved and may still be in circulation, although most units manufactured presently are approved.)

The PFD must be the appropriate size for the user.

The PFD must have a full cylinder and the firing mechanism must have a green status indicator showing that the device is armed and ready for use.

The PFD must be in good condition, including the inflating device, the air bladder, the oral inflation tube, and the manual inflation lanyard.

The PFD must actually be worn to meet the USCG carriage requirement for having one PFD onboard per person—unlike inherently buoyant life jackets, which are not required to be worn at all times (except by children) but which must be readily accessible.

Inflatable PFDs do not meet the requirement for users under age 16 (because they may not be mature enough to understand how to use the manual inflation mechanism if the automatic mechanism fails).

Inflatable PFDs are not recommended—though this is not a legal requirement—for nonswimmers (who may not be able to keep their head above water long enough to use the manual mode or the oral tube for refilling the bladder).
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Dusk Patrol

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2018, 08:45:44 AM »
^ interesting side note, both the TSA and FAA allow exceptions for traveling with CO2 cartridges for PFD purposes, tho’ individual airlines might have varying rules.
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PonoBill

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2018, 09:22:56 AM »
I'm just tickled by the complexity of the rulings. I understand the source of some of it, there were loopholes in import taxes back at the turn of the century--special interests as always, that fiddled with the definition of "vessel". It's never changed. Racing craft are not defined as vessels so the coasties have no jurisdiction. Likewise swimmers--no jurisdiction.

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2Rivers

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2018, 12:12:37 PM »
SUP's qualify for the pfd rules because of the paddle.  A paddle makes them a vessel, according to USCG.
I don't believe the paddle aspect has anything to do with it. A "vessel" includes every description of watercraft or other artificial contrivance used, or capable of being used, as a means of transportation on water.

Float Tubes are also classified as vessels under USCG rules. Float Tubes are designed for floating purposes only and do not require a paddle/oar, sail, or motor to be designated as a vessel. Some individuals utilize fins to improve the mobility of a Float Tube, but the utilization of fins has no bearing on the vessel designation.

http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/vessel-determinations.php
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 12:27:38 PM by 2Rivers »
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Badger

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2018, 01:21:38 PM »
The "Inflatable" PFD must actually be worn to meet the USCG carriage requirement for having one PFD onboard per person—unlike inherently buoyant life jackets, which are not required to be worn at all times (except by children) but which must be readily accessible.

No true.

Type III inflatable PFD's are not required to be worn. If it were a requirement, it would say so on the label.

PFD companies are required by the USCG to have it printed on the label if a PFD has to be worn. Type V inflatable vests have to be worn to comply, but not type III belt packs.

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2Rivers

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2018, 01:59:32 PM »
The PFD must actually be worn to meet the USCG carriage requirement for having one PFD onboard per person—unlike inherently buoyant life jackets, which are not required to be worn at all times (except by children) but which must be readily accessible.

I find this statement misleading. There's no official language from the USCG regarding one having to wear the PFD in order to meet the carriage requirement.
As long as the inflatable PFD (which is defined as a Wearable item) has a full cylinder and the status indicator shows green, is in serviceable condition, and meets the legal requirement of a USCG approved Wearable PFD, it's allowed to be "carried on board" to meet the vessel requirements.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 02:05:55 PM by 2Rivers »
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2Rivers

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2018, 02:31:30 PM »
SUP's qualify for the pfd rules because of the paddle.  A paddle makes them a vessel, according to USCG.
I don't believe the paddle aspect has anything to do with it. A "vessel" includes every description of watercraft or other artificial contrivance used, or capable of being used, as a means of transportation on water.

Float Tubes are also classified as vessels under USCG rules.
You could be right after all. I did find some evidence that Float Tubes can be used with a small motor, so it's likely that since a SUP requires a paddle to be mobile, both are deemed as vessels since neither is specifically hand or foot powered.
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pdxmike

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2018, 04:32:05 PM »
SUP's qualify for the pfd rules because of the paddle.  A paddle makes them a vessel, according to USCG.
I don't believe the paddle aspect has anything to do with it. A "vessel" includes every description of watercraft or other artificial contrivance used, or capable of being used, as a means of transportation on water.

Float Tubes are also classified as vessels under USCG rules. Float Tubes are designed for floating purposes only and do not require a paddle/oar, sail, or motor to be designated as a vessel. Some individuals utilize fins to improve the mobility of a Float Tube, but the utilization of fins has no bearing on the vessel designation.

http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/vessel-determinations.php
The paddle does matter when it comes to standup paddleboards.  The Coast Guard used the presence of a paddle to be proof that the board could be used for transport.  If a SUP is in the surf zone, or outside the surf zone but without a paddle, it's not viewed as a vessel, so it doesn't need to meet the pfd requirements.


I didn't know about that Float tube classification.  I wonder if people using those have to have pfds.  If they do, and you're swimming and start drowning, and someone throws you a float tube, could you get fined for not having a pfd as soon as you grab it?

2Rivers

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2018, 08:01:06 PM »
I didn't know about that Float tube classification.  I wonder if people using those have to have pfds.  If they do, and you're swimming and start drowning, and someone throws you a float tube, could you get fined for not having a pfd as soon as you grab it?
It's a different type of Float Tube. There looks to be two types, one is non-motorized and propelled manually (e.g. using fins) and the other is propelled by a small motor...
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/Publications/Float%20Tube%20Vessel%20Determinations.pdf
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pdxmike

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2018, 08:26:23 PM »
I didn't know about that Float tube classification.  I wonder if people using those have to have pfds.  If they do, and you're swimming and start drowning, and someone throws you a float tube, could you get fined for not having a pfd as soon as you grab it?
It's a different type of Float Tube. There looks to be two types, one is non-motorized and propelled manually (e.g. using fins) and the other is propelled by a small motor...
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/Publications/Float%20Tube%20Vessel%20Determinations.pdf
Yes, after I saw them in that list of "vessels" I looked them up, because the ones I had in my mind were the innertube-like ones.   It didn't make sense that those would be considered vessels (and apparently they're not) but it does make sense that the motorized ones are. 

Eagle

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2018, 10:15:13 PM »
It is weird that you're required to have a pfd "on board" and the pfd is required to be "wearable", and "Wearable PFD means a PFD that is intended to be worn or otherwise attached to the body", but you're not required to wear the pfd that's intended to be worn.....

The only thing using a 17' board gets you is an additional requirement to have a "throwable pfd" "onboard" "in addition to" the "wearable pfd".  Hopefully that doesn't start getting enforced.
This is the general wording used in Canada.

"There must be one Canadian approved lifejacket or personal floatation device available on board and available for immediate use."

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-resources-menu-4139.htm

Kinda similar to the States.

"Though not required, a lifejacket should be worn at all times when the vessel is underway. A wearable lifejacket can save your life, but only if you wear it."

http://www.uscgboating.org/recreational-boaters/life-jacket-wear-wearing-your-life-jacket.php

Some links indicate an inflatable must be worn to be valid -> but seems the official government links do not explicitly state and require this.  A bit confusing.  But on a SUP especially -> it makes sense to always wear an inflatable otherwise it might sink if it falls off your board.  In Canada the whole point of inflatables is to wear them voluntarily for your own safety because they are less bulky than full PFDs.  Even JR in Hawaii wears a full PFD from time to time when rough out.  ;)
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PonoBill

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2018, 10:33:25 PM »
I'm completely in favor of rational rules regarding water safety. Unfortunately, that seems to be well beyond the capability of any governing or enforcement body.
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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2018, 04:47:03 AM »
The PFD must actually be worn to meet the USCG carriage requirement for having one PFD onboard per person—unlike inherently buoyant life jackets, which are not required to be worn at all times (except by children) but which must be readily accessible.

I find this statement misleading. There's no official language from the USCG regarding one having to wear the PFD in order to meet the carriage requirement.
As long as the inflatable PFD (which is defined as a Wearable item) has a full cylinder and the status indicator shows green, is in serviceable condition, and meets the legal requirement of a USCG approved Wearable PFD, it's allowed to be "carried on board" to meet the vessel requirements.

It's only misleading because it's not an official CG statement. I'm sure if you were to look it up, the regulations would clearly state that Type V inflatable vest PFD'S are required to be worn.

Type III inflatable belt pack PFD's are NOT required to be worn, simply because once a type III inflatable is deployed, it still has to be put on over your head just like any type III PFD. Therefore in the eyes of the law, it makes no difference when paddling whether you carry a type III PFD on your person or on the deck.

As I said earlier, if a CG approved PFD is required to be worn, it will say so on the label.

I routinely carry my Mustang type III belt pack PFD strapped to my board and have never had a problem with the marine patrol. As long as they can see it on the board, they are happy.

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/en_US/products/flotation/inflatable-pfds/inflatable-belt-pack-pfd-62533113824.html



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« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 05:25:21 AM by Badger »
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pdxmike

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Re: U. S. Coast Guard pfd regulations
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2018, 10:51:38 AM »
It's only misleading because it's not an official CG statement.
There's a lot of that going on when you look up these rules.  It took me quite a while to find the actual pfd law, even though I've seen it before.  Meanwhile, google will show you dozens or hundreds of links to descriptions of the rule (that are not actual quotes of the entire rule).   And those explanations will change a word or leave out some other information that the rule has, so that the explanations aren't accurate.  Even the Coast Guard does it, for instance in the link 2Rivers provided earlier where the Coast Guard wrote that "float tubes" are legally considered to be vessels, even though many of them are not, according to the Coast Guard's more detailed information.


Unfortunately lots of people enforcing the rules only know the general explanations, too.  I bet maybe 1 out of 100 know the racing vessel exemption exists, and applies to paddleboards based on the Coast Guard definitions.



I was going to give PonoBill a hard time about not having a fire extinguisher on board his unlimited, knowing that of course one wouldn't be required without a motor, and looked up the rules for that.  While the actual rule states that a motor is needed (or being over 26', I think) many of the dozens of explanations about that rule are sloppily written and leave out the part that you need a motor for that rule to apply.

 


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