Author Topic: Battle of the clogs  (Read 13331 times)

unclesaltdog

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2017, 07:55:17 AM »
I have been on dugouts (clogs as you guys like to call them) for a few years now, I had a couple of 26 DC's and still have a 24 DC, all great boards.
I wouldn't have anything else but a dugout, a lot of people don't like them because they feel trapped in and unable to move around but I think the lower centre of gravity gives them so much more stability and more leverage when you paddle compared to flat deck boards.

Some flatdeck wider tailed boards do feel great when on the tail and are a bit more surfable but usually require you to move around more to stop the nose pearling and because they are wider in the tail it is harder to stall them to stay in the sweet spot of a bump by stepping back.
Other boards like the Ace are very fast and require less moving around but I find they are difficult to 'surf' and are fairly technical to paddle.

I find my latest board a 14 x 26" ONE Storm has some of the best features of both, I love the way it feels when you get back on the tail and let the double concave do its thing.
I seem to be able to control speed and direction extremely well and at nearly 90kgs find it has all the stability I need for our rather rough windy conditions on the West Coast of Australia.
For example in the recent King of the Cut race (a 24 km ocean down winder) I didn't have one fall and very rarely do on my local 9km course which is fairly choppy at times.
I love this board and recommend trying to get a demo on one, here is a video of one of my first ever downwinders on it.
I am on the ocean 99% of the time but this was a rare river downwinder as it was our winter when I got the board and our ocean downwind season hadn't kicked in so when an onshore frontal 'Storm' hit I headed for the river.

https://youtu.be/pZSy6Nzk3Z0
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 08:02:38 AM by wrighty »

connector14

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2017, 08:17:48 AM »
"Some flatdeck wider tailed boards do feel great when on the tail and are a bit more surfable but usually require you to move around more to stop the nose pearling and because they are wider in the tail it is harder to stall them to stay in the sweet spot of a bump by stepping back."

After reading that statement it finally "clicked" with me as to why those pintail boards are so prevalent in downwinding.....easier to sink the tail and get the nose up to prevent pearling...less moving to the rear for trimming.
"never leave the dock without your paddle"
Imagine Rocket 14 ...my new favorite, smooth and fast and lite
2018 Red Paddle 14 x 27 Elite
2014 Bark Dominator 14....smooth and quiet
2014 Imagine Connector 14...the "barge"

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2017, 08:56:58 AM »
If you're a wobbly dude like me a little width in the tail is nice. Yes, you have to move more, but the platform is more stable. SIC boards strike a nice balance--enough width to support running back, enough pin to steer easily and sink the tail. I thought the Blackfish with its broad tail would work well for me, but it's too much. I'm a passenger on that board.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

unclesaltdog

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2017, 09:18:09 AM »
"Some flatdeck wider tailed boards do feel great when on the tail and are a bit more surfable but usually require you to move around more to stop the nose pearling and because they are wider in the tail it is harder to stall them to stay in the sweet spot of a bump by stepping back."

After reading that statement it finally "clicked" with me as to why those pintail boards are so prevalent in downwinding.....easier to sink the tail and get the nose up to prevent pearling...less moving to the rear for trimming.

Yep that's why they are so popular instead of having to really walk the board much, on some real pintails like the Ace usually one big step back is enough.
If you step back to far they slow down too much, I find the Storm a really good compromise because it has just a bit more area in the tail and a bit squarer rails, combined with the v and double concave it does actually still surf and maintain a fair bit of speed whilst being manoeuvrable.
That video I posted was one of my first downwinders and I was still getting used to the different characteristics I can now steer the board heaps better.

Eagle

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
    • View Profile
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2017, 09:43:35 AM »
"You would think that straighter rocker would cause the board to pearl easily, however, the narrowed tail brings the nose up, mitigating purling and unlocking top end speed by reducing wetted surface area."

http://sicmaui.com/bullet-14-0-v2-scc/

This marketing blurb is true in a sense.  The flatter rocker does cause the board to pearl in steep waves even with the surf nose.  But the narrowed tail does bring the nose up to help mitigate pearling.  Which does unlock top end speed by reducing wetted surface area.  I have pearled this board by standing too far forward in steep drops.  As well stepped back enough to bring the nose up.  In big wind this design gets the board to plane very easily as the panel vee aids dipping the tail and adds directional stability going straight or turning.  Kinda like a speedboat or racing sailboat panel vee.  It is mandatory to move back and forth to keep the board going fast.  Otherwise it will slow while pearling or stall with too much tail drag.  It has a pretty narrow -> but fast power band.

Conversely the Dominator has a big flat squared off tail.  A M14 a big flat rounded tail.  A SB Touring a narrowed pintail.  An Ace a dugout pintail.  Each board design has its pros and cons.  Which is better suited in certain conditions and varying  skill levels.  Personally I like plenty of variety as it gets boring paddling the same board all the time.  But stepping back on the Ace does def dip the tail -> which keeps the nose up and dugout from filling up with tons of water.  This vid shows how a pintail Ace should be surfed.

https://youtu.be/HbdKlEpK4rg
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

connector14

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2017, 09:55:26 AM »
Wow!  That's alot of work !
"never leave the dock without your paddle"
Imagine Rocket 14 ...my new favorite, smooth and fast and lite
2018 Red Paddle 14 x 27 Elite
2014 Bark Dominator 14....smooth and quiet
2014 Imagine Connector 14...the "barge"

unclesaltdog

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2017, 09:58:38 AM »
Yep that video is a beauty Eagle, anyone that says you can't move much in a dugout needs to watch that.

Eagle

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
    • View Profile
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2017, 10:35:00 AM »
Yeah requires major skills and quick balance to do that.  Not my pay grade at all.  I am plenty happy enough to just stay dry when I SUP.  Getting dunked is not my idea of fun -> and has a big neg impact on my confidence in really rough conditions.  Once I second guess or overthink too much my balance goes all to crap.

On my AS23 there is no time to think in rough water.  It is all reaction based.  You either go and get on a wave -> or you get slammed and pushed over from behind.  Really pushes your boundaries.  But is kinda fun in a weird sadistic way.

Here is another vid talking about the differences btwn an all water board vs a more flat water board.  He talks briefly about the Ace at the start.  Overall what is concluded makes sense.  The speed difference is small -> but correlates to what one would typically expect.  But can say the 21.5 Sprint speed cannot be matched by an AS23 in calm conditions.  The Sprint is way faster.

The 23.5 Ace I tried was a slug on flat.  But getting some wind push from behind felt good.  The pintail was very low drag.  Plus and minus.  Always.  ;)

https://youtu.be/o2Ri9_f3Za0
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Jacko

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2017, 01:27:05 PM »
Here is a little vid with Ben Tardew talking about the 17'11 dugout.
https://youtu.be/vETwNAU2C4k

Eagle

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
    • View Profile
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2017, 05:08:53 PM »
Here Beau does a good job balancing to level off his board for the big drop ahead.  From his forward position he weights back to sink the tail into the wave he is on.  As the big boof nose slams into the trough he stays pretty neutral.  But because the wave ahead was unexpectedly big -> he decides to weight back even more to reduce amount of slowdown and splash.  Not the fastest approach as his timing was a touch off -> but the boof and pintail work in tandem to give him a fast average speed.  His own vid technique analysis gives him a big advantage to correct his flaws. 

Basically since the Ace -> many like Deep NSP Sunova One etc use a similar dugout approach.  All look to be effective enough.  Each with a slightly different spin and shape better suited for this vs that.  Personally I think the pintail release is very low drag -> but does get a tad tippy way aft when going slow or stationary.  For me a compromise board like the AS23 is the perfect solution for all water use round here.

https://youtu.be/fQH1-AUP7iY
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Luc Benac

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1872
  • Super Natural British Columbia
    • View Profile
    • When not paddling...
    • Email
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2017, 08:09:27 AM »
The Deep Velocity looks like a very nice board too. Definitely dig the orange :-) Pity it is very unlikely to make it to Canada ever.
Oz is very well served for clogs Sunova, OneSup,NSP,Deep
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

burchas

  • Custom Built
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2508
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2017, 05:49:24 PM »
Oz is very well served for clogs Sunova, OneSup,NSP,Deep

And now ECS as well joining with their own new clog...
in progress...

Eagle

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
    • View Profile
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2017, 06:21:07 PM »
425 Pin Code is another spin on the Ace.

https://youtu.be/33mARzwwZIU
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

capobeachboy

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 898
    • View Profile
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2017, 09:46:38 PM »
The Deep Velocity looks like a very nice board too. Definitely dig the orange :-) Pity it is very unlikely to make it to Canada ever.
Oz is very well served for clogs Sunova, OneSup,NSP,Deep

Hey Luc, Right now all we have are demo boards in the US but we will be at Surf Expo so hopefully we can meet some Canadian dealers.
West Coast Distributor
Dolphin Surfcraft
DEEP Ocean Boards
Ambassador/team rider/rep
KeNalu Paddles

Luc Benac

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1872
  • Super Natural British Columbia
    • View Profile
    • When not paddling...
    • Email
Re: Battle of the clogs
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2017, 09:59:45 PM »
The Deep Velocity looks like a very nice board too. Definitely dig the orange :-) Pity it is very unlikely to make it to Canada ever.
Oz is very well served for clogs Sunova, OneSup,NSP,Deep

Hey Luc, Right now all we have are demo boards in the US but we will be at Surf Expo so hopefully we can meet some Canadian dealers.

And you could sell the used demo boards :-)
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

 


* Recent Posts

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal