Author Topic: 2/3rds of the robot shaper  (Read 3841 times)

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25870
    • View Profile
2/3rds of the robot shaper
« on: October 15, 2017, 08:13:50 AM »
Nice to see someone else thought about this and actually implemented it. Looks like it's only X/Y right now, but the implementation is pretty much what I had in mind a couple of years ago. Add a Z axis and we're ready to shape surfboard blanks. Yes. it would be slow, but so what. It's a robot.

I always say ideas are a dime a dozen, it's implementation that has value. This is an excellent implementation. I love the wheels. I thought about building a forklift with omnidirectional wheels years ago, and then recently read a science fiction book--Fata Morgana--that posits the same idea. Maybe I should kickstart one.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2130625347/goliath-cnc-an-autonomous-robotic-machine-tool-for?ref=aj8jqz&utm_campaign=MBL&utm_content=D-3&utm_medium=A20FB&utm_source=A20FB
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4929
    • View Profile
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2017, 08:36:45 AM »
This s is the best execution of one of these I've seen. I loved the one that hung on wires and pulled itself around but it didn't have true awareness of its surroundings. This one can update for slippage on the material and correct.

Love the ideas this could make possible and at an accuracy that a home builder could only dream about.

Once these get into the rental market it's really on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Admin

  • Administrator
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 6443
    • View Profile
    • StandUpZone
    • Email
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2017, 08:39:23 AM »
That is really cool.  Is it limited to working on/from a flat surface?


TallDude

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5714
  • Capistrano Beach
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2017, 08:54:19 AM »
I looks like it does work in a Z axis. I watched it closely and appears to be plunging. I wonder about the traction (accuracy) of those wheels when the surface gets covered with enough sawdust?
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

jrandy

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 489
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2017, 09:30:36 AM »
It looks like it would be awesome for flat panel work like hot wire templates or the stations within a hollow wood board.
I think it would struggle to do foam surfboards with the tethering, z-axis limits, and having to drive over the work.
The wheels are neat. The proprietary software could be trouble.
I'd set it loose on a wood floor and let it do an inlay design as big as the sensors and the tethers allow...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 10:02:57 AM by jrandy »
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

supuk

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
    • View Profile
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2017, 10:42:47 AM »
All very well but the feed rates are terable and so slow it would take hours and I'm sure people will say speed is not important but a big unlimited board can take up to 8 hours to cut and you do need to keep eye on it and my machine runs over 4 x the speed. Any good diy cnc guy will be shaking there head at this knowing even a basic gantry cnc will far out perform this and that before even contemplating what will happen if you hit say a knot or something were the density changes and causes the tool to jump. I tryed my cnc on some ali for the first time yesterday and it cut it but only just and that was going ever so slow, it needs far more  rigidity .

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25870
    • View Profile
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2017, 01:03:17 PM »
I looks like it does work in a Z axis. I watched it closely and appears to be plunging. I wonder about the traction (accuracy) of those wheels when the surface gets covered with enough sawdust?

Yeah, it plunges. but it's pretty limited. To route a surfboard blank it would need to orient the machine in the Z axis since it would inevitably be climbing. Sawdust shouldn't matter much, but that's a fairly easy fix if it does.

No doubt that this first implementation will have problems, but the idea is reasonable. Alternative approaches that work OK get refined. My first 3d printer took hours to make rough toys.

On another note. It appears my Glowforge is finally going to get shipped. Only took a few years instead of the few months I expected. At least the project didn't get ditched.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

TallDude

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5714
  • Capistrano Beach
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2017, 02:10:41 PM »
The day they make an autonomous free-form curved surface sander, I'll be very interested. Lots of automated cutting devices, but I haven't seen anything that takes care of the shitty part of building boards.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25870
    • View Profile
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2017, 05:39:51 PM »
Same tech, different head. Seriously, think about it. If you have enough precision to cut you have enough to sand. You wouldn't go to the trouble of getting that to work for a traditional machine--you'd tie it up for too long. But if you had three axis awareness and a relatively cheap machine it would be practical. The cost to design these things would be substantial, the cost to build would be cheap. It's a router, some stepper motors, and some electronics. That's oversimplifying, but not by a lot. Nothing heavy, nothing expensive.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

TallDude

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5714
  • Capistrano Beach
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 07:19:50 PM »
I'm picturing a scanner that senses the material thickness and determines the amount how required sanding needed to achieve a specific uniform thickness at the region being scanned. Maybe a scanner like this?
 http://www.micro-epsilon.com/2D_3D/laser-scanner/

It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

stoneaxe

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 12084
    • View Profile
    • Cape Cod Bay Challenge
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2017, 08:03:02 PM »
That would be perfect for building my arborvitae board...... :)

 All you would need to fix the problem of material densities...skipping on a knot or otherwise would be to have a few fixed points of reference in the room that it could read continuously. Adds to the complexity but not that much.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 08:09:00 PM by stoneaxe »
Bob

8-4 Vec, 9-0 SouthCounty, 9-8 Starboard, 10-4 Foote Triton, 10-6 C4, 12-6 Starboard, 14-0 Vec (babysitting the 18-0 Speedboard) Ke Nalu Molokai, Ke Nalu Maliko, Ke Nalu Wiki Ke Nalu Konihi

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4929
    • View Profile
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2017, 09:58:30 PM »
If you plow through their kickstarter page you can see the list of prototypes. This isn't rev 1 by a long shot. The reason for the weird wheels is that in the case of loss of traction, you always have 1 more wheels to grab.

Also, remember that it's aware of where it is so traction and flex isn't as much of a problem. Pono's point about this the whole time has been that rigidity and traction aren't as important once you can error correct.

Think about an R/C helicopter vs a drone. Used to be only a highly skilled pilot could fly a rotor craft. Now anyone can do it due to the sensors.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25870
    • View Profile
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2017, 11:02:26 PM »
I'm picturing a scanner that senses the material thickness and determines the amount how required sanding needed to achieve a specific uniform thickness at the region being scanned. Maybe a scanner like this?
 http://www.micro-epsilon.com/2D_3D/laser-scanner/

Possible, but that would probably be several to many generations down the line. More likely to be something a lot less precise, like infrared reflection or even just mechanical displacement. Most mechanical sanding is just pads applying a specific pressure with the position set by a feeler arm.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supuk

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
    • View Profile
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2017, 12:34:48 AM »

Also, remember that it's aware of where it is so traction and flex isn't as much of a problem. Pono's point about this the whole time has been that rigidity and traction aren't as important once you can error correct.


the problem is not with correcting itself its with the damage to the part that it does the split second it hits something hard. when you have a bit and motor spinning at between 10,000-20,000 it tends to have quite some momentum behind it so the force created if that is suddenly acted on it quite some. Its why cnc are so big and heavy so there is a lot of mass behind them which helps absorb vibrations and dampen these sort of effects.

How much damage can you do routing through a stringer if you get it wrong!

considering a lot of the time it looks to be just dragging one set of wheels around I'm not sure how much traction there really can be.

you have to remember that to cnc something its not as they make it look in the video. First there is the design which you are unlikely to in a dusty building site and then there is the cam which has to be done to get it to cut how you want which also takes time and lets not forget the price of this thing its not cheap!

I'm not quite sure where this tool would be a good but if you want accurate and reliable repeatable and perfect cuts it just not going to be like this.

the gantry design cnc are like it for a reason. if space is the problem just flip the gantry style machine on it side and to do the same job but more reliable it could easily be made portable.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25870
    • View Profile
Re: 2/3rds of the robot shaper
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2017, 08:04:14 PM »
It's going to be a long wait, but I'll let you know what I think of it. For building the interior of my RV project it would have been great. I'm doing a lot of 1/4 ply panels that have specific size and odd-shaped holes in them for electrical outlets, control panels, the air conditioner, etc. For that matter the battery spacer I made two days ago by drilling 180 holes in formica with a holesaw would have been great to have made from a drawing. The Glowforge I'm supposed to be getting "real soon now" would have been equally good for the spacer, but would have been useless for precision cutting the wall panels.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal