Author Topic: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?  (Read 17441 times)

connector14

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2017, 07:44:11 PM »
You guys all crack me up. I just can't believe that a fin can make that much difference.   :o
"never leave the dock without your paddle"
Imagine Rocket 14 ...my new favorite, smooth and fast and lite
2018 Red Paddle 14 x 27 Elite
2014 Bark Dominator 14....smooth and quiet
2014 Imagine Connector 14...the "barge"

Dusk Patrol

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2017, 07:50:24 PM »
Thank god there are so few components to this sport...  ;D
RS 14x26; JL Destroyers 9'8 & 8'10; BluePlanet 9'4; JL Super Frank 8'6

Eagle

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2017, 09:11:16 PM »
Haha!  Depending on DW conditions a change in fin can make a huge diff cutting hard across waves.  These DW fins all have a fairly narrow base so can turn ok - but the ones with more area deep have more stability and hold.  Basically a short fin like the 7.0 turns fast and changes the feel like night and day.  See pic to compare.

a)  SIC 7.0 -> Bullet
b)  SB Race Ultra -> AS
c)  JL Tracker -> M14
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

gone_foiling

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2017, 10:21:04 PM »
Yep that jl tracker was a fucking nightmare on maliko run, there I said.
Addicted to foiling at the moment.
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Area 10

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2017, 10:30:20 PM »
You guys all crack me up. I just can't believe that a fin can make that much difference.   :o
Well, it does. It can make the difference between having fun and feeling eternally frustrated.

People need different fins at different stages of their paddling progression. I used to use huge fins for DW (50-60 sq ins). Now I use quite small area fins (the FCS Fat Boy is 42 sq ins and the 9 is only 34).

One of the advantages of paddling a "fixie" (fixed fin downwind board) is that you can use a fin that is optimised for surfing bumps. Rudders, by contrast, because of their requirement to turn the board, tend to be a straight up and down dagger style. Dagger fins are pretty bad for DW, IMO (in most boards). You need some rake if you want to surf a bump properly, by weighting/sinking a rail (i.e. carving) and using the board's rocker to turn. Straight up and down dagger style fins really just require pivoting the board flat to turn, which is not carving. In this way, fin choice can dictate a huge amount about what you can and can't do with your board.

Area 10

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2017, 10:40:03 PM »
Yep that jl tracker was a fucking nightmare on maliko run, there I said.
IMO that fin was me a totally stupid choice by Jimmy for an OE fin for the M14 (originally called the Maliko, but the name was changed to M14 out of respect to Bill Foote who already had a DW board called the Maliko; Naish don't seem to have the same qualms). I really have no idea what he was/is thinking. Especially since there are fins already produced by JL that do a pretty respectable job downwind, especially when you are starting out. The standard fin that comes with the Sidewinder is pony* too.

(Note to Jimmy: this one of your fins would be a better choice as a standard fin for the M14 (in 9.5" or maybe even slightly bigger): http://www.jimmylewis.eu/accessories/hp-longboard-fin/. Even your big 11"  noserider fin would be better than the tracker - at least it gives some stability and pivot).

*For my US friends this is Cockney rhyming slang: "pony and trap" = crap, therefore pony = crap.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 10:56:07 PM by Area 10 »

JP4

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2017, 11:42:33 PM »
Currently have the stock 9" dagger style. Use is smaller closer frequency.... not big open swell.  I'm curious if anyone has come across a worthy alternative?
For small short period swell it's hard to beat the SIC 7.0 on a Bullet. I've had that fin in the V2 and the V3 the last several years and it turns great and doesn't collect weeds. The key in short swell is getting the angle early before you get to the trough and carrying your speed to connect the next bumps. That's hard to do if your board is tracking straight. I think the stability of bigger fins is overrated for downwinding and can actually cause balance problems when you can't keep the board turning under you.
I was doing a run with Lopez a few weeks ago and he uses the same tiny fin that Connor was using last time I saw him in the Gorge , just a short fat nub basically. Obviously ridiculously talented individuals, but it's working for them.
A few years ago Covesurfer turned me on to using pretty small traditional windsurfing fins in our old 2011 Javelins. That transformed those boards for downwinding into something pretty fun, despite the lack of any rail to speak of on those boards. My 2 cents.
JP

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« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 11:51:02 PM by JP4 »

Eagle

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2017, 12:52:40 PM »
Yeah the attributes of a tracking fin like the JL or Elite oppose optimal use for DW.  Can do -> but more of a fine line and extra challenge surfing across waves.  Found they can add some stability in big slop and slamming reflected waves.  Just allows a second more reaction time.  So recommend you try different fins to feel the difference firsthand. 

JL Tracker has long drawn out DW turns vs short immediate ones with the SIC 7.0 fin.  This thread details general tracking variables that might help explain more.  Pic below shows JL Tracker rolling and rounding up due to excess hold deep from a big fast wave push from behind.  Makes that DW stability fin quite finicky.  Need speed for that fin to work.

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,13810.0.html?PHPSESSID=012e8cfe421e7a217c891a19dd65cf75
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 12:55:01 PM by Eagle »
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

burchas

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2017, 01:33:52 PM »
Yeah the attributes of a tracking fin like the JL or Elite oppose optimal use for DW.  Can do -> but more of a fine line and extra challenge surfing across waves.  Found they can add some stability in big slop and slamming reflected waves.  Just allows a second more reaction time.  So recommend you try different fins to feel the difference firsthand. 

JL Tracker has long drawn out DW turns vs short immediate ones with the SIC 7.0 fin.  This thread details general tracking variables that might help explain more.  Pic below shows JL Tracker rolling and rounding up due to excess hold deep from a big fast wave push from behind.  Makes that DW stability fin quite finicky.  Need speed for that fin to work.

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,13810.0.html?PHPSESSID=012e8cfe421e7a217c891a19dd65cf75

Eagle, I can't get over the PFD you're wearing, It looks like you have another body attached to you :)
There are much better PFD's out there, especially for your lightweight like you.
in progress...

Eagle

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2017, 01:54:57 PM »
Haha!  Thought that same thing looking at that pic.  Way bulk city for sure.  But think it was not strapped down tight.  The old PFD in this pic fits a lot better that my wife uses on DW runs.  But cannot find another anymore so used the Kokatat on that run.  You can see was wearing thick neoprene pants and boots as the water up in Squamish comes out of the river ice cold.  Main positive is that you do not sweat hardly at all.  Works but is not optimal.

We often use a waist PFD for short 5 mile runs from Porteau to Britannia.  But going into Squamish we prefer full PFDs for safety and max float.  Up that way it is very exposed and can be very dangerous at times.  So need to prepare for self-rescue if something should happen.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

PonoBill

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2017, 02:00:47 PM »
You guys all crack me up. I just can't believe that a fin can make that much difference.   :o

Well, since the spectrum runs from no fin, to huge fin, and no rake, to lots of rake, low aspect to high aspect, base weighted to tip weighted, rigid to flexible--it shouldn't be too surprising. and then there's multi-fins.

you can get away with anything, heck, if you lose your fin you can wrap your shirt around the tail and limp home. Been there, done that, though it was windsurfing, and it was my harness, not my shirt.

People that come from a surfing or windsurfing background tend to be a little obsessed by fins, mainly because they compliment a style. You can use your favorite fin in two somewhat different boards and still like it, but a fin you hate won't work for you no matter what you put it in. And one person's fave is another person's trash.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 02:04:24 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

JEG

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2017, 02:12:55 PM »
 ;)

JP4

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2017, 02:13:52 PM »
People that come from a surfing or windsurfing background tend to be a little obsessed by fins, mainly because they compliment a style. You can use your favorite fin in two somewhat different boards and still like it, but a fin you hate won't work for you no matter what you put it in. And one person's fave is another person's trash.

I never thought of it that way PB, but it makes sense. Coming from a windsurfing/wave sailing background, I've hated every deep blade fin I've ever paddled because they just don't turn how I expect them to. Of course, I don't paddle flat water unless it's to take my dog for a spin. Maybe those big ugly fins are good for that :)

Eagle

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2017, 02:33:18 PM »
Hehe!  This is JR so afraid of the cold water he sat like this to keep his legs warm at Watts.  About half way point.  The guy in the background was of course wearing thick neoprene.  He realized pretty quick this is not warm Maui bath water.  You can indeed hang your legs over -> but they basically start turning blue and freeze right up.  First a nice cold jolt then a bit of a burning feel.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Dusk Patrol

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Re: Downwind fin advice for V1 Bullet 14?
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2017, 04:20:57 PM »
Hey that's just prudent Howe Sound shark avoidance...
RS 14x26; JL Destroyers 9'8 & 8'10; BluePlanet 9'4; JL Super Frank 8'6

 


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