Author Topic: Hips and the drive.  (Read 17730 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2016, 09:31:27 AM »
I'm just back from Kalama Kamp Turks & Caicos, and yes, Dave's story these days is all about efficiency. The last day of the technique effort Dave was trying to get my hips engaged, but I had ten new things floating around in my brain and the eleventh wouldn't fit. So that gonna have to wait a while. He DID tell me something I found very effective--practice two new things at a time. So I can probably do hips and insert the paddle or hips and push deep at the same time, but not all the new steps.

Dave needs to do a completely new video, his technique has changed and it's a little bit of Larry and a lot of Dave. He's still pretty insistent about getting the paddle out early. He has two torture devices to reinforce that. I thought I was pretty good at getting the blade out before my heel, but not so! I got to paddle with the stick of shame. felt like I had one of those dog cones on me.

the big change for me is getting the paddle completely pushed down before I start to pull. I thought I was until I saw the video. Yuck. Also proper hingeing. Again, the video was ugly. I looked like I was trying to lay eggs. I have work to do, but I'll get t6here. After day one I felt like I could have greatly improved my finish at the PPG if I had reversed the order. As usual, this will take six months to settle in and I'll need a refresher about halfway.
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headmount

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2016, 09:42:11 AM »
Kathy was explaining that same thing to me last night at my B-day dinner. 

supsurf-tw

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2016, 08:08:50 AM »
When capobeachboy delivered my new paddle he had white tape just above the top of the blade. Hmmmmmmm. He said unless that tape is disappearing every time before you start your stroke you're not getting the blade deep enough. This was awesome. You think you're going deep enough but many time you're not. The white tape is a great tool as your peripheral vision can easily see it.
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Bean

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2016, 08:12:47 AM »
That's a great tip TW

mrbig

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2016, 08:15:32 AM »
Is blue painters tape OK?

Seriously, it was an enormous help especially when going to a higher aspect paddle..
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Quickbeam

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2016, 09:10:52 AM »
When capobeachboy delivered my new paddle he had white tape just above the top of the blade. Hmmmmmmm. He said unless that tape is disappearing every time before you start your stroke you're not getting the blade deep enough. This was awesome. You think you're going deep enough but many time you're not. The white tape is a great tool as your peripheral vision can easily see it.


Yes, I’ve been doing the exact same thing for some time now (except I use yellow tape). I started using it for two reasons. The first is as you said, so I can easily check to make sure my blade is fully planted before I start to pull. The second is that I sometimes go out on midnight paddles, and I thought if I should ever happen to somehow lose my paddle in the dark, it would be much easier to find it with some yellow tape around it.  ;)
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mrbig

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2016, 09:22:47 AM »
Bill, Any more info you could pass on regarding hinging? Am also curious as to the amount of leg bending on the push down prior to pulling?
Mahalos,
Cleveland
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supsurf-tw

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2016, 11:14:52 AM »
Is blue painters tape OK?

 
The blue doesn't have enough contrast to the water.
Boards:

 
8-10 x 31 Egg
8-11 X 32 Double wing Fangtail Tom Whitaker
8-6 X 30 1\2  Inbetweener Tom Whitaker
8-4 x 30 Hyper quad Tom Whitaker (wife's now)
8-4 X 31 1\4.  Round (wide) Diamond Tail Quad Tom Whitaker
 9-4 X 30 1\2. Swallow Stinger Quad Tom Whitaker (ex wifes now)
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mrbig

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2016, 01:10:25 PM »
supsurf-TW, Blue water? Whasszat?? ;D  ;D
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 01:14:42 PM by mrbig »
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supsurf-tw

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2016, 04:14:13 PM »
supsurf-TW, Blue water? Whasszat?? ;D  ;D
Well if I used pink people'd be talkin'.....
Boards:

 
8-10 x 31 Egg
8-11 X 32 Double wing Fangtail Tom Whitaker
8-6 X 30 1\2  Inbetweener Tom Whitaker
8-4 x 30 Hyper quad Tom Whitaker (wife's now)
8-4 X 31 1\4.  Round (wide) Diamond Tail Quad Tom Whitaker
 9-4 X 30 1\2. Swallow Stinger Quad Tom Whitaker (ex wifes now)
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mrbig

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2016, 10:35:32 AM »
We are having too much goofiness here! Let's have a lively discussion on Alien Control of the Election, Illuminati, Knights Templar, Sacred Bones, Theodicy, Who or What is really calling the shots.

 Very Interesting, but stupid!
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PonoBill

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2016, 09:01:40 AM »
Bill, Any more info you could pass on regarding hinging? Am also curious as to the amount of leg bending on the push down prior to pulling?
Mahalos,
Cleveland

Hinge enough to get the paddle down into the water. That's about it. Dave says your knees should be slightly bent all the time. My knees say no.  Watching video of myself I could easily see what Dave was talking about. I was starting to pull as soon as my blade tip hit the water. Because of the angle a paddle enters the water there is thrust available just in pushing the paddle into the water. You'd think I'd be hyper-aware of this since it's the reason I was trying to develop a wing paddle using the same principle as the wing blade for surfskis. I still think it's a good idea, but I digress (surprise, surprise). 

Dave stressed using lower arm extension, shoulder stacking, and a little rotation to extend reach, then get the paddle down into the water with upper hand pressure and hinging. Push the paddle in like shoving a letter into a mailbox and continue pushing down until the blade is fully inserted. The pull is slower then, since the blade is fully loaded and the air is off the blade. No slurping, no vortex, even with a Mana 90. I could hear every time I screwed up. Dave focused on intentionally making the stroke slower by continuing to push down and make the blade travel in an arc. His rationale is that most of the power is in the first half of the stroke, so keep the blade in that efficient area as long as possible.

As you rotate into the stroke you unhinge, so the big muscles of your core do all the pulling. The end of the stroke comes with a little hip thrust, which Dave describes as scooting the board forward, but I think it's more useful for getting my back muscles "reset", like the way I shove my hips forward after standing up to keep my back from tweaking.

Recovery starts at the toes, finishes at the heels with the blade pulled out with the lower hand pushing up on the shaft and breaking inward to feather the blade. He doesn't rush the recovery or try to be asymmetric with blade speed. Not sure that makes sense except in having a smooth flow. Dave is certainly the master flow.

Watching him surf I could see that his stroke to catch a wave was the same as his flatwater stroke--and just as efficient. He was on me for flailing at waves, which is my norm. I slowed down and focused on a good stroke, which got me into good waves, but also got me rolled over the reef a few times. Tough to concentrate on stroke while you're trying to manage a dumping fast wave.  Too many inputs for ADD boy.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 09:09:13 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

LaPerouseBay

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2016, 09:45:02 AM »
/
Because of the angle a paddle enters the water there is thrust available just in pushing the paddle into the water. You'd think I'd be hyper-aware of this since it's the reason I was trying to develop a wing paddle using the same principle as the wing blade for surfskis. I still think it's a good idea, but I digress (surprise, surprise).



Oy, you and the wing blade idea.  I was incredulous years ago when you mentioned harnessing the wing idea for a single blade. 

You big fat jackass.  Hurry back to Maui so I can set you straight on wings once and for all.  Holy hell PB, Jim Terrell would have done it decades ago.  The assymetry is where wings gain the 10%.  Both sides no can.  Get it?  Didn't think so...  The scoop at the tip is confusing you.  That's irrelevant.  It's the motion in the water. 

I'll borrow a V-8 and put a wing in your hands - on the water.  Just looking at a blade doesn't do it.  You should cross train in a ski anyway with your bad knee.
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mrbig

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2016, 11:17:00 AM »
Mahalos for your detailed reply! It helps a lot. My initial attempt at the catch from the LC vids looked like a nervous old man trying to place a blade delicately with no splashing.
Sorta worked, but absolutely no power whatsoever needless to say. Progress not perfection. The slight hinge, and knee bend as you described was making a difference.
Allowing the paddle to move in an arc - with power - what a novel concept!

Am also experimenting with a slight shift in pressure to both heels as I am pulling. Seems to help with getting the hips involved. The full C. Baxter escapes me!

Proof of the pudding is in the eating. My next rec race 🏁 with KDOG - PROVIDENCE PADDLE BATTLE SHOUT OUT - is looming. Hafta make sure my DFIB is fully charged!

A great event. Y'all come down ya hear!
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supsurf-tw

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2016, 11:39:29 AM »
 
 

  Because of the angle a paddle enters the water there is thrust available just in pushing the paddle into the water.


  This x 100. Not just a little thrust, a LOT of thrust. When I started doing this technique for wave catching my wave count more than doubled
Boards:

 
8-10 x 31 Egg
8-11 X 32 Double wing Fangtail Tom Whitaker
8-6 X 30 1\2  Inbetweener Tom Whitaker
8-4 x 30 Hyper quad Tom Whitaker (wife's now)
8-4 X 31 1\4.  Round (wide) Diamond Tail Quad Tom Whitaker
 9-4 X 30 1\2. Swallow Stinger Quad Tom Whitaker (ex wifes now)
10-0 Brusurf for teach

 


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