Yes, the COMPOSITE Fluid Element will be in production very soon people. Check this out, you saw it first on Playak...





Full production by December, AND, it will be made in a medium as well as a large size. Available in yellow, orange, red, blue or white.

This exact boat will be at the Kanumesse so you can see it for yourself if you visit the show. You'll note that there aren't fins shown in this picture. Don't worry, production boats will have the same fin system as the already successful plastic Element.

I'll be getting mine in the next month and will report back more then and can compare to the plastic version, as I've been paddling it for over a year now. Can't wait!

This is going to be so sweet!!!

But what i am really excited about is the forthcoming composite Nemeis range.
I can't remember the last time i was so amped for a boat ........... Probably when I got my very first kayak

Hearing it first on playak

Very interesting that it has a similar hull planform to my Dekka waveski..

and the Dekka is an awesome Waveski

PS if you look closely the new fluid outfitting is visible...

FLuid Tim wrote:
It was already on the latest Fluid newsletter: campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=00...FEzttNsm67eWxZyek%3D

Thanks Ian. Yes, it is.. Bigger pic for those that didn't get the newsletter

3 questions Adrian:
1. where will they be made?
2. How much will they cost?
3. Most manufacturers connect the seats to the hull in some way. This seat is connected to a plate which in turn seems to be held in place only by the support pillars? What stops the whole lot from sliding around? (well I gues thats a 4th question).

Three answers

1. SA.
2. No idea.
3. No, check out the picture. This setup has been tested for several months now and works like a dream. No more wedges, nothing. Super solid. Well, the old system was pretty solid. But on the rare occassion those seat wedges would go, so check this out:

Is this new system backwards compatible with old Fluid models? I've had no end of grief with the wedges (on my 6th set for my Nemesis, the distributor replaces them for free, but that's hardly consolation if my seat breaks loose halfway down-river)... I'd really like to rip out and replace what I've got for this

I speak under correction, but I think it's fully compatible. You'd have to ask your dealer to be sure. I'm
not sure if they're using the same width foam pillars now. Shouldn't be a problem though.

And before someone asks, the seat is a lot more supportive

I had a paddle repaired a while back and I was shocked by the price of carbon weave. Making a whole boat out of the stuff would make it fairly expensive I would think.
Making the boat in South Africa with its lower manufacturing costs might make it affordable in countries with a strong currency. Fenn Surfskis made in East Londen (SA) are quite competitively priced here in NZ and so it is concievable that this Nemesis might be an attractive option.

That picture explains everything - the vertical bars are not so obvious from a whole boat shot.

wrt to the outfitting, I asked celliers some time back if the new ouitfitting is backward compatible and he confirmed that it is. I don't know the price will be but for my SOLO E I think its a must have.
When I have the rear compartment filled with overnight gear the weight is pretty far back in the boat. This affects the trim. With the new outfitting it's dead simple to unscrew the seat and move it to a more forward position to improve the trim.

As for the composite element, i'm not sure who manufacturers it in SA but i suspect it could be BlackStone Tech in JHB. They manufacture carbon fibre racing wheels for motorcycles of very high quality. There is quite alot of expertise in carbon manufacture in SA, so i have no doubt that the carbon fluid kayaks will be made to the highest standards.

Thanks Tim! Hope you have a lekker birthday today too... Pity there aren't any waves today, keep Sunday open Good waves!

It's not them who are making the composite Element & Nemesis.

I have no idea what the exact layup is, but I know (and can see from the photos) that the bottom of the hull is carbon Kevlar, at least the outer hull. I have 2 old paddles made from the same stuff. Light and strong, and not as expensive as pure carbon. Price should be good, I think. It won't smack your wallet too much...

Interesting about the Fenn kayaks Jurgen, I didn't know that!

hmmmm, sunday I'm still on the Greyton MacGregor hike. but if i get back early I'll hit the beach at Muizenberg.

whoever is manufacturing the carbon boats I'm sure its high quality. I spent enough time in the defense industry to understand just how good our local composites people are.

of the quality I have no doubt.

One thing that needs to be mentioned here, is that the carbon boats will be slightly larger than the plastic models of the same size. The plastic shrinks as the boat cools down once it is removed from the mould where as the carbon will remain the same.
Just a point of information to think about if you are a paddler that borders on 2 weight ranges like me.

Thought this would be worthwhile to mention in this thread.

Scotty R

Since I am testing the composite element at the moment I thought I could clear up a few things.

At the moment the layup is a carbon/kevlar hull with some kind of honeycomb material added as well. The deck is plain glass with a gel coat. Both halves are vacuum molded. This layup is in testing stages right now so the production version might not be exactly the same.

The size of the boat is the same the medium element, the composite boat isn’t made from the same mold as the plastic boats. A plastic element was used as the plug for the composite mold so they should be almost identical in size.

Andrew

ah, i stand corrected. That is great news. When i chatted to Celliers it was a point he brought up and i'm glad he figured a way around it.

I am surprised that there is honeycomb in the layup. It does not take to lifes little knocks too well leading to delamination. Even thin layers of honey comb are problematic. This is concern to me because a carbon kevlar honeycomb layup is almost not repairable in the field. In order to restore the bond between crabon kevlar and the honeycomb one needs to apply pressure, usually vacuum bagging. This is a little hard out on the river. I would think that glass fibre epoxy would be more servicable and even glass/kevlar combinations are more servicable than carbon/kevlar layups.

The shrinkage of thermoplastic boats is not an issue since the mould will be designed to be slightly larger than the final product, so you will have an on size final product. Thermoset moulds can be taken from a finished thermoplastioc product quite successfully.

I don't see why the blank used for the thermoplastic mould was not used...?

Plenty ways to skin this cat though

I am surprised they have moved the ratchets to the thigh braces, i like the positioning of the ratchets on the old outfitting, they are out of the way and dont catch on anything. Any one else agree or is it just me being odd?

Mod 3 outfitting things.
Adrian has said it and yes the old and new outfitting is interchangeable.
But just to make sure I whent and had a look. I have a Nemesis with the Mod 3 outfitting, got it to test the outfitting and see what it's like. If I had to rate the old and new outfitting out of 10. Old would score a 6 New would score a 9.5. Why not 10? Becuase nothing in life is perfect.

The foam pillars remain the same size and the main frame (spine setup) connects through the same holes as your current seat wedges.
To change from old to new will also be rather easy. To remove your old outfitting you will need some flat screw drivers,a allen key some contact glue and at least 4 cold beverages. (removal of old outfitting and installation of new outfitting should not take more than 60min if you take 5 min per beverage. Handy Hint: when replacing screws/fasteners put a little bit of silicone on the screw and the hole in your kayak shell. When fastening them also do not use all your power as it might strip the thread.

I must say that the new Mod 3 outfitting is really nice. My favourite thing about the outfitting is the seat design and hight. your legs get much better lift/support and the ease of moving the seat forward and back is great, like Adrian T said I am sure that when heading on that overnight it will make adjusting the trim on your kayak super easy.

For the ratchets on the thy hooks, I paddle in rather muddy/sandy rivers a lot and have found that the ratchets on the bottom can sometimes get clogged with sand etc, with the ratchets on the thy hooks I have not had similiar problems. I must say that so far I have not had problems with getting stuck/hooked on them even when rapidly exciting the kayak to rescue beginners on kayak courses and trips.

All in all I think the new Mod 3 outfitting is top notch. I can only compare Riot and Jackson kayaks outfitting to the new mod 3 from Fluid as they are the only other brand of kayak that i have recently paddled and the Mod 3 Outfitting is in my humble opinion way above the rest.

deon wrote:
Beer, of course....

deon wrote:
Nicely said. Can't wait for my next boats to try this out...

I have found in the short time I have had my Solo E that with the ratchets on the bottom, they get covered in sand on longer trips, especially South African rivers which tend to be very seasonal. This make the depth of the river vary and often the sand banks are exposed meaning that if you stop, you stop on a sandy beach. Sand in the ratchets does make them tougher to operate so I welcome the raised ratchets.

Also with the new outfitting it appears that if you swim you don't get water and also silt trapped inside the base of the seat which adds a few kilos to the boat if you get in a out often on a trip (ok in my case swim...). Solo's like most creek boats are rather portly creatures and I do welcome not having cavity's where dirt and water can hide when drying out the boat.

The new outfitting also looks to be easier to fit. I think I'll probably spend 40 min ripping out the old stuff and 5min fitting the new.

I just wish that Fluid develops a competitor to the Dagger Approach / LL remix XP ....

How much will the new outfitting cost (USD)?

cjcc wrote:
No idea Ian. You'll have to ask your dealer I don't even know how much it costs here.

Just hear today that the new outfitting is in production and the rand cost is somewhere around R1100-00. I'll have a firm number from the retailer near me in the week.

In USD that will be somewhere around USD150? depending on exchange rate and markup at distributors etc.
don't quote me on that through as I don;t knwo what markup the US and european distributors work with. In SA they typically have a lower markup.

In the US, the retail price on the Fluids is $915, with some exceptions (Flirts are 800 and E Solos are 1000). What do you pay for a Fluid in SA?

Depends where in SA. In Cape Town, we pay more. Up near the factory, less... Prices:
www.whitewatertraining.co.za/default.aspx?layout=show&id=187

Much cheaper than the USA, or anywhere else. This would be expected though. Sending boats across the ocean on big ships isn't exactly for free

Looks like it should be 200ish

Looks like it should be 200ish in the US then. Will it be available in a similar fashion to the Jackson Boat Armor outfitting, where you can buy each component? jacksonkayak.com/store/product.cfm?product=boat-armor-upgrade

You can buy the JK seat, footbags, backband, hip pads, etc.

I might want to get the new thigh braces, but that's about it.

I'll have details in the week. The only parts you keep are the pillars.Everything else is new so I don't think just new thigh braces will cut it